Episode #51: Being a Small Business Triple-Threat with Rob Schuck

[00:00:00] So down the shore, I can actually predict what houses will sell for based on what they're currently being marketed for now. And when they flip into this closed transaction, I can tell you if they started what the price came down to. And actually, when they're in active mode, I can say that house is going to sell for this number.

[00:00:15] Wow.

[00:00:16] And so actually other agents at our office down the shore actually call me now.

[00:00:20] Oh, but it's the number.

[00:00:21] They gave me the address.

[00:00:22] You got to talk to those NAR lawsuit. People would be like, yo, I got some straight up data on the South Jersey Shore.

[00:00:28] But while we were slow, I built it.

[00:00:30] Right? So we're slow. I'm like, you know, I want to become the expert on this market.

[00:00:34] So I know exactly what things are going to sell for. I had a family.

[00:00:37] My son goes to Malvern and my daughter goes to Episcopal and, you know, lots of families, their own places down there.

[00:00:44] And I've had them come up to me and, you know, their their house is listed and it's not selling.

[00:00:48] And I'm like, well, based on my model, it should be at this number.

[00:00:51] You know, and then like a few weeks later, I see it dropped down to my number and I'm like, but someone else listing it.

[00:00:56] Right, right.

[00:01:03] Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate insurance and building your business.

[00:01:09] Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts.

[00:01:19] Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

[00:01:25] Hey, everyone.

[00:01:26] Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk.

[00:01:30] I'm Tim Garrity.

[00:01:31] And I'm Sean Mooney.

[00:01:33] Today, Sean, got another one of your buddies on.

[00:01:36] And I think it's a childhood friend, too, as you were telling me.

[00:01:40] We have Rob Shuck, the president of North Point 360.

[00:01:45] How are you doing today, Rob?

[00:01:46] Good, guys.

[00:01:46] Thanks for having me.

[00:01:47] Welcome in.

[00:01:47] Sean, it's good to see you.

[00:01:49] Yeah.

[00:01:49] Thanks for coming in, buddy.

[00:01:50] It's a nice to meet you.

[00:01:51] So Rob is the president of North Point 360, which consists of North Point Real Estate, North Point Lending, and North Point Insurance.

[00:02:01] Super impressive.

[00:02:02] Thank you.

[00:02:03] One of the few professionals who is a licensed real estate agent, mortgage originator, and insurance agent, dare we say triple threat.

[00:02:12] Raised locally.

[00:02:13] Yeah.

[00:02:13] He went to Wissick in high school, home of the Trojans.

[00:02:16] Home of the Trojans, yeah.

[00:02:18] Villanova University with a bachelor's in finance.

[00:02:21] Yeah.

[00:02:21] And you're married with two kids.

[00:02:23] Correct.

[00:02:24] Awesome.

[00:02:24] Living in Chester County.

[00:02:25] Love it.

[00:02:26] All right, so let's do this.

[00:02:28] So we were just chatting briefly, as you and I just met.

[00:02:31] And it looks like insurance came first from you starting your own businesses.

[00:02:38] Yep.

[00:02:39] And, you know, as Sean would agree, insurance, I mean, again, it's going to keep you plenty busy.

[00:02:44] But you have lending.

[00:02:46] You have real estate.

[00:02:48] Let's go back to that time when you started insurance because you were in the mortgage industry prior.

[00:02:54] Correct.

[00:02:55] What made you do that?

[00:02:56] Well, as we talked before, it was 07, 08, and the mortgage industry was collapsing.

[00:03:02] It was in complete turmoil.

[00:03:04] Awful.

[00:03:04] And I just saw that, and I used Prudential Fox & Roach as my example, you know, when I looked

[00:03:11] at them and their trident companies and I saw that they had multiple revenue streams, I said

[00:03:16] that I have to do that.

[00:03:17] And at the time, I was lending in REMAX Action, which was a real large, probably the largest

[00:03:25] REMAX in Montgomery County at the time in Horsham.

[00:03:28] And there was definitely opportunity for me to continue to build not only mortgage business,

[00:03:34] but the insurance business because I was there.

[00:03:36] And at the time, you know, when you look at REMAX agents, they're 100% on their own,

[00:03:41] most from 100% commission.

[00:03:42] I found myself sharing, being the conduit of sharing information on how this problem got

[00:03:48] fixed with this deal and this problem got fixed with this deal because at those offices,

[00:03:52] that tends to lack that centralized person who helps.

[00:03:56] Agreed.

[00:03:56] So I ended up growing my mortgage business because I was able to offer all these, you know,

[00:04:01] hey, this is how you structure this contract.

[00:04:02] This is how you word this addendum.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:05] And that kind of became my niche there.

[00:04:07] Like a problem solver.

[00:04:09] Deal makers and problem solvers.

[00:04:10] That's why I always tell people that we need to be in this role.

[00:04:13] If you're not one of those, being both of those things, you're not really, you're not,

[00:04:17] you shouldn't be in the service industry.

[00:04:18] I agree.

[00:04:20] So that's what, you know, for lack of a better term, being on the balls of my ass in the

[00:04:25] mortgage business, I said, all right, well, what are you going to do?

[00:04:27] Are you going to sit there and throw a pity party or you got to go do something?

[00:04:30] So I went and got my insurance license.

[00:04:32] I called travelers.

[00:04:33] I brought them out to the office.

[00:04:34] I showed Mario that, hey, listen, this is where we're at.

[00:04:37] I have leads to come in.

[00:04:39] Do you know Mario?

[00:04:40] He was my guy.

[00:04:43] You guys are the same people when you were starting out?

[00:04:45] No.

[00:04:46] Well, they have the carriers have their carrier reps.

[00:04:48] Oh, gotcha.

[00:04:49] So then these reps cover territory and then the person represents the carrier.

[00:04:53] You get to know the person.

[00:04:54] They got to give you the appointment.

[00:04:55] Gotcha.

[00:04:56] You know, right now you try to go out as a new person, get an appointment from insurance

[00:04:59] companies.

[00:04:59] Got to take them out to a nice lunch.

[00:05:01] It's, even back then.

[00:05:02] I mean, I had no, I had, it wasn't like I interned at an insurance agency.

[00:05:06] I just was just.

[00:05:07] How many years of insurance experience do you have, Rob?

[00:05:11] Starting today.

[00:05:12] It was negative.

[00:05:13] About three weeks.

[00:05:14] Can you take negative as a number?

[00:05:15] Because that's negative.

[00:05:16] That was in one of our early episodes.

[00:05:17] It was like, we, I laugh about it because, you know, you, I was calling these carriers

[00:05:21] and I didn't have any, you know, funnel of like feeding business in.

[00:05:26] And they're like, um, call us back when you have like a book of business.

[00:05:30] That's like a million dollars.

[00:05:31] Cause we don't want to talk to you.

[00:05:33] You know what I mean?

[00:05:33] It's like, you're an unestablished, you're, you're liability to them.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:38] Um, so their willingness to like.

[00:05:40] Oh yeah.

[00:05:41] He went out on a limb to give us the first appointment.

[00:05:44] Yeah.

[00:05:44] He really did.

[00:05:45] And I will always be thankful for Mario.

[00:05:46] You know, um, you know, Fran was my, uh, back then met life, uh, person.

[00:05:52] Oh, okay.

[00:05:53] Yeah.

[00:05:53] And I, I remember her cause I'm like, you shouldn't have given me this appointment.

[00:05:58] You're like, Hey, I'm going to prove myself.

[00:06:01] Just let me do my thing for any.

[00:06:02] Yeah.

[00:06:03] But I, you know, I talked to Mario now and there's, there's startup real estate companies

[00:06:06] all over the city and other places that are reaching out to him trying to get something

[00:06:10] going.

[00:06:10] And it's, it's hard.

[00:06:12] It's, it's, you just can't just have customers.

[00:06:14] You have to actually know the business, what's happening in the business, which is not fun

[00:06:19] right now, but it's, I think it's getting better.

[00:06:21] Like all my, where we just got a letter, uh, yesterday, Main Street America done getting

[00:06:28] out of the business, uh, for personal lines, which is the Kemper move.

[00:06:32] How big is that company?

[00:06:33] I don't know what the number is, but they were part of AmFam.

[00:06:36] AmFam is like a big national brand.

[00:06:38] Um, they're getting out and usually in a normal market we'll sell off that book of business.

[00:06:44] There's not even any buyers.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:46] Well, it sounds like, you know, cause we've talked about this in a few different episodes.

[00:06:49] It sounds like real estate is, it's like a thinning of the herd a little bit because

[00:06:52] people were writing a lot of stuff.

[00:06:54] They're not making any money.

[00:06:56] Maybe they didn't like we had the episode with Harris and he's talking about, you know,

[00:07:01] making sure your business is properly capitalized.

[00:07:03] And there's always going to be companies that get into all industries that are riding the

[00:07:08] wave of a good economy.

[00:07:10] We've been in a good economy for a long time.

[00:07:13] Um, which it kind of, I want to dive into this topic too with you, Rob, cause you've been

[00:07:18] around for a while and you were in lending when I was in lending and now you're in insurance,

[00:07:23] lending and real estate.

[00:07:24] So, you know, depending on who you talk to the current housing market, let's call it

[00:07:29] residential real estate.

[00:07:30] Some people say it's decent and some people say it's terrible.

[00:07:35] So it really just depends on who you ask what market they're in.

[00:07:38] Are they in a market where they're getting listings left and right and they all sell for over asking?

[00:07:42] They're going to say it's decent.

[00:07:44] Is it the person who focuses on, you know, a neighborhood in the city with tons of inventory

[00:07:49] and three buyer clients are going to say it's terrible.

[00:07:51] I mean, it can go one way or the other.

[00:07:54] So how do you think our current housing market developed to get to this point today?

[00:08:00] Oh, geez.

[00:08:01] Well, um, I only have an hour.

[00:08:03] Cool.

[00:08:05] Well, it's a couple of different things.

[00:08:06] So again, it starts back in 08, right?

[00:08:08] So if you go back to 08, you listen to guys like Warren Buffett.

[00:08:10] They said once the builders started to fold and start running down land, we were not going

[00:08:15] to build enough housing to keep up somewhere down the road.

[00:08:18] We probably hit that in 1617, right?

[00:08:22] That's when we hit that mark where it was like, oh yeah, we have these millennials who

[00:08:26] lost their jobs, right?

[00:08:29] Moved back in with their parents, did not create households.

[00:08:32] Problem number one.

[00:08:33] Yep.

[00:08:33] So now their life is on a little bit of a delayed start.

[00:08:36] So here comes a generation behind them, full force.

[00:08:39] Gen Z.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:41] Saying, hey, we saw what happened.

[00:08:43] We were like in grade school when the economy crashed and we are now adults.

[00:08:47] So we really focused on when we came out of school, whether it's trade school or college,

[00:08:51] we had a job.

[00:08:52] Right.

[00:08:52] Right.

[00:08:53] We knew exactly what nursing, what they were not like guys like us probably went to school

[00:08:57] and said, well, you study business.

[00:08:58] Right.

[00:08:58] Yeah.

[00:08:59] Yeah.

[00:08:59] And then when you come out, you do something business-y.

[00:09:00] Right.

[00:09:01] Sure.

[00:09:02] Whatever that may be.

[00:09:03] Totally true.

[00:09:03] Right?

[00:09:04] I can do this.

[00:09:04] I can do that.

[00:09:05] As long as you can pay the tuition or borrow the tuition.

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:08] You're going to be doing something business-y.

[00:09:09] That's a great example.

[00:09:10] So, you know, I looked at that.

[00:09:13] I called it generational collide.

[00:09:14] So now the millennials regrouped, got better training, got MBAs, did whatever they had to

[00:09:20] do.

[00:09:21] So now they are on a delayed track.

[00:09:23] But now they're joining this other generation.

[00:09:26] Right?

[00:09:26] And then we compile that with the fact that our parents' generation are living longer.

[00:09:31] Yep.

[00:09:32] Right?

[00:09:33] And have paid off their houses.

[00:09:34] And have been always taught-

[00:09:35] Aging in place, a lot of people.

[00:09:36] Yep.

[00:09:36] Exactly.

[00:09:37] Aging in place.

[00:09:38] And their houses are effectively invisible to the market.

[00:09:41] They're just like, we're not going anywhere.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:43] Where are we going to go?

[00:09:44] Well, maybe where are we going to go?

[00:09:45] We like it here and we want to do, like I've always dreamed about doing photos for that

[00:09:50] wedding in the backyard.

[00:09:51] Yeah.

[00:09:52] And Christmas is here.

[00:09:52] They want to still hold on to the holidays.

[00:09:54] Totally, man.

[00:09:55] Like our parents' generation is like, got a-

[00:09:58] Stubborn.

[00:09:59] Face grip on everything.

[00:10:01] Like I'm not changing it up.

[00:10:03] So that's a part of the big problem.

[00:10:05] You had people not going downsizing.

[00:10:08] Then their kids are all looking for housing at the same time.

[00:10:10] A whole nother generation is late to the game trying to look for housing also.

[00:10:13] So you're already behind with the millennials.

[00:10:15] Right.

[00:10:15] You got Gen Z coming up wanting the same exact thing, but they're technically the generation

[00:10:19] behind.

[00:10:20] Right.

[00:10:20] They have all this demand.

[00:10:23] Correct.

[00:10:23] And again, we don't have enough supply.

[00:10:25] That's been the problem for years and years.

[00:10:28] Yeah.

[00:10:28] Even prior to the pandemic.

[00:10:31] I don't have the exact number, but I know that we were probably still in technically a

[00:10:37] seller's market around then.

[00:10:39] Yeah.

[00:10:39] Because a traditional buyer's market, I think, I don't know, again, number off the top of

[00:10:43] my head, maybe like four to six months of inventory is usually what they want to go with.

[00:10:47] To be like, buyers can go out, look at three homes, take their time.

[00:10:51] Even if all three got scooped up.

[00:10:53] Next week, go look at three other homes.

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:55] Take their time and they can buy what they want or like what they consider to be a fair price

[00:11:00] based on where the market is.

[00:11:01] Because in certain neighborhoods, especially like inner suburbs, as we all know, there's

[00:11:06] nothing for sale.

[00:11:07] And you have all these people looking to buy.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:11] Because they're like, I'm just at that age.

[00:11:12] I'm getting married or am married.

[00:11:14] I'm thinking about kids.

[00:11:15] I have a kid or have kids.

[00:11:16] I have three dogs.

[00:11:18] Like whatever they're looking to do, they want to own real estate.

[00:11:21] And because of that, they're looking in these areas.

[00:11:24] And as soon as something hits the market, they're like, let's go flood this thing and

[00:11:29] see what we can do.

[00:11:30] And you've been out to these crazy open houses with like 50 cars on the street and people

[00:11:35] waiting on the lawn for their turn to go in.

[00:11:38] You got like two, three agents running the open house.

[00:11:40] And who's the only with them?

[00:11:41] Their parents.

[00:11:43] Exactly.

[00:11:43] True.

[00:11:44] And if you go back to 2016, you remember like first mom and dad's answer to this is like,

[00:11:47] well, I'll give you an extra 25.

[00:11:48] Go over 25.

[00:11:50] And then we went up to 50.

[00:11:51] And now we're still kind of floating around the hundred.

[00:11:54] I'm seeing people get houses with a hundred thousand over asking.

[00:11:56] A hundred, a hundred fifty.

[00:11:57] Certain parts of Wayne and all over Chester County, the main line, depending on the school

[00:12:01] district.

[00:12:02] And that generation, that Generation Z and that millennial generation is the million dollar

[00:12:08] listing generation, right?

[00:12:09] So they've been nothing but force fit over the last 20 years.

[00:12:12] In tears.

[00:12:12] Like when we were growing up, it was like Robin Leach.

[00:12:16] Right, right.

[00:12:17] Lifestyles of Rich and Famous.

[00:12:18] We got to get a peek inside of the house.

[00:12:20] We had to watch, find when that show was on to watch it.

[00:12:22] Now they are getting hit with it.

[00:12:24] Then they're getting hit with Pinterest over the head.

[00:12:26] And then all the TikTok videos and all the other stuff.

[00:12:28] Like everything's about what style of house you live in.

[00:12:30] Right.

[00:12:31] So now we've entered into this crazy time where people are, you know, buying a two million

[00:12:35] dollar house and doing a two million dollar renovation.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:38] You know, and then they're shocked when they're like, why is my insurance so expensive?

[00:12:41] Well, you spent four million on that place.

[00:12:45] That's why.

[00:12:46] And if it lights, and if you like burn it down with a candle, it's going to cost you four

[00:12:51] more million dollars with that house back up.

[00:12:53] Sean, what's the deal?

[00:12:54] My rate went up like $10 a month.

[00:12:55] Can you, can you work on this?

[00:12:57] All right.

[00:12:57] So, so based on all that, Rob, like what's your opinion of the market today?

[00:13:02] Like what do you think the market's like?

[00:13:04] I still think, and keep in mind, I do business here.

[00:13:06] I also do business to shore.

[00:13:07] I have an office in Avalon and Stone Harbor with a partnership with Purdy Real Estate

[00:13:11] down there.

[00:13:11] So I have my eyes on both those markets.

[00:13:14] And here in Philly, Philly is still benefiting from its proximity to New York, DC, Baltimore.

[00:13:20] Correct.

[00:13:20] Those are still very expensive places, very expensive places to live with great paying jobs.

[00:13:25] And people are like the back to work thing is affecting a little bit, but most people

[00:13:29] back to work that I'm hearing is one or two days.

[00:13:31] And like, well, I'll just, I'll commute down for a day.

[00:13:32] I'll spend my hotel.

[00:13:33] I'll commute twice a week.

[00:13:34] But I want to live in Philly.

[00:13:35] I want to raise my kids, send my kids to this school.

[00:13:36] So I still think buyers here are very strong and there's still a lot of movement to go

[00:13:43] to get Philly.

[00:13:44] Like I always tell people, I think you go back in time to the year 2000, once Boston finished

[00:13:49] the big dig and in 96, Matt Damon and, you know, Ben Affleck came on the scene with

[00:13:55] Goodwill, honey.

[00:13:55] All of a sudden you started knowing Boston everywhere.

[00:13:57] It was in every movie.

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:59] Everybody was talking.

[00:13:59] Sure.

[00:14:00] Saturday Night Live.

[00:14:00] It was having this huge.

[00:14:01] Boston was hot.

[00:14:02] It was having this huge movement.

[00:14:03] Good sports.

[00:14:03] Good.

[00:14:04] Everything got good.

[00:14:05] All of a sudden.

[00:14:06] And Philly's in that moment right now.

[00:14:08] True.

[00:14:08] We do have good sports.

[00:14:09] We're our accents on all over online.

[00:14:12] Always sunny in Philadelphia.

[00:14:14] Everything.

[00:14:14] Everything.

[00:14:15] We're in that Boston moment.

[00:14:16] So Boston is an expensive place to live.

[00:14:18] But Boston used to be a place that people would pass their houses down in order to.

[00:14:24] Right.

[00:14:25] You know, if you're if I was a firefighter and my son's a firefighter, a police officer,

[00:14:29] I got to keep them in Boston.

[00:14:30] They got to live within the city limits.

[00:14:31] I got to pass this house down.

[00:14:32] Yeah.

[00:14:33] Not going to cash out on.

[00:14:34] It could be worth a million dollars.

[00:14:35] Right.

[00:14:36] What can what can my son borrow?

[00:14:38] All right.

[00:14:38] We'll get that money and we'll maybe go to Florida, go do something like that.

[00:14:42] I think Philly's in its moment right now.

[00:14:43] Yeah, it's a really good point.

[00:14:44] And I don't think it's going to necessarily have any type of decline.

[00:14:48] We have such a good diversified major employers.

[00:14:52] I always call them the old factories.

[00:14:53] Right.

[00:14:53] So, you know, once the car companies left Detroit, who to leave?

[00:14:56] Yeah.

[00:14:57] Right.

[00:14:57] Not not a lot.

[00:14:58] But here we have Vanguard out in the suburbs.

[00:15:00] We have Comcast downtown.

[00:15:03] We have big employers, big like we're we're diversified.

[00:15:07] Just like I talked about.

[00:15:08] You know what?

[00:15:09] Not to interrupt, but you know what one of our largest industries now in Philadelphia is

[00:15:13] that wasn't maybe say like 20, 25 years ago.

[00:15:17] Universities.

[00:15:18] Tourism.

[00:15:18] Tourism.

[00:15:19] I think it's like number three.

[00:15:20] I think we're like manufacturing, maybe like finance law and then tourism are like,

[00:15:26] I believe the top three.

[00:15:27] Top three.

[00:15:28] Don't quote me on that, but somewhere around.

[00:15:30] Tourism's in the top five.

[00:15:31] Dill, check me.

[00:15:32] Check at the end of this.

[00:15:34] Go to Wikipedia.

[00:15:36] But all right.

[00:15:37] So that's where it is today.

[00:15:38] I would agree with all that.

[00:15:40] Where do you think it's going?

[00:15:41] Like, let's look.

[00:15:42] OK, we got a big election coming up, you know, and we were just talking about this elections.

[00:15:47] Yeah, they get people all juiced up and they're arguing back and forth how it's going to go

[00:15:51] to hell if it goes this way.

[00:15:53] It's going to be amazing if it goes the other way.

[00:15:57] Election years, though, throughout history don't necessarily make or break economies.

[00:16:02] You had said something about events like an event will make or break like the pandemic.

[00:16:08] Wasn't it more of a thrust?

[00:16:10] That was an event.

[00:16:11] You know, 9-11 was an event.

[00:16:13] 2008 was an event.

[00:16:15] You know, the dot-com bubble that burst at the end of like the late 90s.

[00:16:20] That was an event.

[00:16:21] Like, where do you think housing is going?

[00:16:24] Well, we're coming out of the lawsuit.

[00:16:27] Yep.

[00:16:27] The NAR lawsuit.

[00:16:28] Right.

[00:16:29] The NAR lawsuit.

[00:16:29] And what I think that's about versus what I hear through our, where we consume our information

[00:16:36] as real estate agents, right?

[00:16:38] Exactly.

[00:16:38] I think the lawsuit was about data.

[00:16:41] Okay.

[00:16:42] So-

[00:16:42] I don't disagree.

[00:16:43] Right.

[00:16:43] So what people don't realize is that since 07 when iPhones were invented, right, everything

[00:16:48] became about data.

[00:16:49] Google, we're recapturing your data.

[00:16:51] Apple's stealing your data.

[00:16:51] Everybody's taking data, data, data, data.

[00:16:54] And what, you know, the drumbeat you hear out there is all real estate agents do is unlock

[00:16:59] the door.

[00:17:00] Right.

[00:17:01] Or write up a contract.

[00:17:02] Why are you paying them so much?

[00:17:03] Well, hey, fellas, what's not being told is that since like Windows 95 was invented and

[00:17:08] whatever the first web browser was back then, we've been compiling data on housing.

[00:17:13] And it's so good and so reliable that the entire banking industry lends trillions of dollars,

[00:17:18] Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, on our data.

[00:17:22] And we don't build a wall around it.

[00:17:23] It should be in Fort Knox.

[00:17:24] Right.

[00:17:25] It's free.

[00:17:26] It should not be-

[00:17:26] If I had my way, I'd have Zillow dark tomorrow.

[00:17:30] Yeah.

[00:17:31] I shut them down.

[00:17:32] Got it.

[00:17:33] Yeah.

[00:17:33] I'd say, the reason why, oh, should I hire you to sell my house?

[00:17:36] I know what it's worth.

[00:17:37] I just look it up on Zillow.

[00:17:38] Like, yeah.

[00:17:39] You want to really do work?

[00:17:40] Right.

[00:17:40] Go dive into the public courthouse records and see if you can dig up all the information

[00:17:45] you need and why this house actually sold for $1.2 million.

[00:17:48] Exactly.

[00:17:49] And have it so easy at your fingertips that you're able to do it.

[00:17:51] This whole opening door stuff is just, it's nonsense.

[00:17:55] And it's like, it's what we have.

[00:17:57] It's the world we live in with the social media that like someone can just beat a drum

[00:18:00] and it just echoes.

[00:18:02] So wait a minute.

[00:18:03] So go one step further.

[00:18:06] What?

[00:18:06] So if you're saying it's about the data, how does that-

[00:18:10] So class action lawsuits take tremendous amount of money to actually get one off the ground.

[00:18:15] So if you were suing your agent because you didn't want to pay your commission or something

[00:18:19] happened, whatever, that would just get settled.

[00:18:21] Right.

[00:18:21] It would never make it as far as this made it.

[00:18:23] That took like four years.

[00:18:24] The big, the Sitzer case, I think it was about four years.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:26] But somebody was funding this.

[00:18:28] Yes.

[00:18:28] Right.

[00:18:28] Right.

[00:18:29] So on the street, you hear about, and I didn't want to name companies.

[00:18:31] I don't want to end up in-

[00:18:33] Yeah, I didn't do that.

[00:18:34] But the idea is somebody's trying to disrupt the market.

[00:18:38] Somebody's trying to disrupt how we do business.

[00:18:40] And in order to do that, if you bankrupt us, they're going to be like, yeah, they don't

[00:18:43] even know that like that data is worth a trillion dollars because we're this MLS and

[00:18:49] I got a different MLS to the shore.

[00:18:50] Ocean City's got its own MLS.

[00:18:52] Yeah.

[00:18:52] There's all these MLS scattered all over the country.

[00:18:53] It's like a hundred, I think it was like 150 or so or 125.

[00:18:57] And it's like gold, stacks of gold sitting in all these places.

[00:19:00] And they're not really watched by anybody who knows that they're watching.

[00:19:02] It's like the doors are locked.

[00:19:03] So your thinking is that that was put into motion to submarine and take down the big real

[00:19:19] estate-

[00:19:19] How we do business.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:21] So that if they go down and the data is just left in the dust for us-

[00:19:26] Skipped up for nothing.

[00:19:27] Yeah.

[00:19:27] Well, think about NAR.

[00:19:28] You see someone in bankruptcy.

[00:19:30] So we've talked about NAR before.

[00:19:32] Hold on.

[00:19:33] That's probably, if we threw out all of these different ideas about, you know, what, why

[00:19:42] this occurred.

[00:19:43] Why it happened.

[00:19:44] I mean, that may be the most sensible.

[00:19:48] Well, I mean, like here's-

[00:19:50] You're from 30,000 feet.

[00:19:52] Right.

[00:19:52] You just say, why does something happen?

[00:19:53] It's like checkers and chests, right?

[00:19:54] Like someone's in the background here that like sees this pile of trillions of dollars

[00:20:01] of money not being utilized or thinking I can use this a lot better and value to me is

[00:20:08] this.

[00:20:09] So I'm going to work behind the scenes to try to make this happen and become available.

[00:20:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:15] So think about NAR's, let's call it their power, their leverage.

[00:20:20] You know, largest trade organization in the US, largest lobbying organization.

[00:20:25] And they got their asses handed to them in this case.

[00:20:29] And now there's kind of like a back and forth.

[00:20:31] They're like, they're kind of the class action suit.

[00:20:33] I know, but then by who?

[00:20:36] Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:37] And why?

[00:20:37] And NAR, because we talked about this in the realtor episode, you have NAR, the National

[00:20:42] Association of Realtors.

[00:20:44] Then you have state associations, PAR, Pennsylvania Association of Realtors.

[00:20:48] Then you have regional associations.

[00:20:51] You know, you got Tri-County Suburban and you got Bucks County and GPAR.

[00:20:55] So there's all these layers to the bureaucracy of NAR, which is, there's a lot of politics.

[00:21:02] It's very old, like a part of this, part of the reason they lost or bringing out all this

[00:21:07] old stuff, like you're forcing someone to do this.

[00:21:09] You're forcing someone to do that.

[00:21:11] Therefore, we're going to bring you down.

[00:21:12] That's monopolistic.

[00:21:13] And they won.

[00:21:15] And to your point, Rob, it's, it's interesting because NAR, I don't know what is in every

[00:21:23] market, but they usually have ownership, either some or all of the MLSs and the MLSs

[00:21:30] control the data.

[00:21:31] So if you're talking about like our area, greater Philadelphia, we have bright MLS.

[00:21:35] That is the number one source of residential home data, basically from Harrisburg to DC,

[00:21:42] like up to like North Central Jersey.

[00:21:43] And Philadelphia is like in the middle of it.

[00:21:45] And it's like, I don't know how many years it goes back, but it's a lot of data.

[00:21:51] And that data is what good real estate agents use to comp homes, to make offers on homes,

[00:21:58] you know, to comp rentals, to understand, you know, should I buy this house to flip it?

[00:22:03] Because my acquisition, you know, price is comping out here, but my ARV is comping out

[00:22:08] there.

[00:22:08] Like you need the MLS for all that.

[00:22:11] Like that's what gives you the confidence to make good decisions.

[00:22:14] So it's interesting to hear you say the data is a big reason why, or the reason why this

[00:22:21] whole thing kind of went down.

[00:22:22] Would they say follow the money?

[00:22:24] It's like, who's the one, you know, show me the money?

[00:22:28] No, it's follow the money.

[00:22:29] Follow the money.

[00:22:29] You're right.

[00:22:30] It's follow the money.

[00:22:31] You know, in other industries, like we have a lot of friends that are financial advisors,

[00:22:35] right?

[00:22:35] And boy, has that industry changed as far as their roles go.

[00:22:38] Because, you know, if you were in the 80s and you talked to a financial advisor, they

[00:22:41] were stock pickers.

[00:22:42] They were trying to pick the next hot one.

[00:22:44] They were maybe trying to balance you out, allocate you, but really that's how you were

[00:22:47] judged.

[00:22:48] And then, and the better you got at it, the better you were.

[00:22:50] Now you look at these, these industries and all of their investment data is proprietary

[00:22:58] and effectively the financial advisors get told like, Hey, we're going to move money.

[00:23:02] We're selling.

[00:23:02] You should sell this.

[00:23:03] Like the computer algorithm is going to say, Hey, you need to move this client.

[00:23:05] He's too heavy here based on our internal models on it.

[00:23:08] You need to sell this off.

[00:23:09] And they pick up the phone and call up Tim and say, Tim, we need to, we need to reallocate

[00:23:12] some funds here.

[00:23:13] We want to move some money to cash.

[00:23:14] We're going to do this.

[00:23:15] And that's how they get told they're more of an aggregator of money.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:18] They're like curated information and they're delivering that based on client service to their client.

[00:23:23] Yes.

[00:23:23] Versus stock picking anymore.

[00:23:24] Right.

[00:23:25] Because there's other, there's computer models and other much smarter people than our salespeople

[00:23:29] saying this is where we're, this is where the money needs to go.

[00:23:32] And that's, so we could see a similar change like that in the mortgage and the insurance

[00:23:37] business.

[00:23:37] Right.

[00:23:37] So, you know, in the mortgage industry has already turned into more of a commodity since

[00:23:42] 2008.

[00:23:42] Well, insurance always kind of has been at least that I can remember, but mortgages were again,

[00:23:48] way different to early two thousands.

[00:23:51] There was overage.

[00:23:53] There was waiting a day.

[00:23:54] There was locking.

[00:23:55] Like you could play with it.

[00:23:57] You could like the stock market.

[00:23:58] You could play with interest rates.

[00:24:00] When I first got in, people were like judging things and speculating and like making money.

[00:24:04] Like the client still had what they had.

[00:24:05] They're like, this is the rate.

[00:24:07] But you're like, I think the rates are going to go down tomorrow.

[00:24:09] If they go down, there's some overage.

[00:24:10] If there's overage there, my bet paid off.

[00:24:12] The overage goes to me in the house.

[00:24:13] Like that's what loan officers did back then.

[00:24:16] 2008 happens.

[00:24:17] What happens?

[00:24:18] The entire mortgage industry kind of becomes more of a commodity.

[00:24:21] You know, Fannie and Freddie came under government control and never the government never let go.

[00:24:27] Like they still have all that.

[00:24:29] And so was it you guys that were responsible for the crash?

[00:24:32] No, it was really honestly how business was done.

[00:24:35] And then also in, you know, what is your role?

[00:24:39] Like what's your competitive advantage?

[00:24:42] Yeah.

[00:24:42] What loan officers became is they became just like financial advisors, good client service reps.

[00:24:48] Most of our clients are realtors just like us.

[00:24:50] Like a good mortgage person knows like 20 like really productive real estate agents and their business grows through that.

[00:24:55] But they service the hell out of those realtors and their clients, which is why they always come back for more.

[00:25:00] Just like a good financial advisor.

[00:25:02] So then it becomes less about the numbers.

[00:25:05] It's more of a commodity.

[00:25:06] You want good service.

[00:25:07] You want a relationship.

[00:25:09] You want honesty, integrity.

[00:25:11] You want someone to look out for your best interest, not making deals and churning through clients.

[00:25:17] And, you know, real estate agents are only slowing.

[00:25:20] They're slowly going that way now.

[00:25:23] Like customer service has only really been a hot topic in residential real estate.

[00:25:27] And you may agree or disagree.

[00:25:28] I'm going to say in the last like five, six years, because before that and still today, it's about deals.

[00:25:34] Who's got the most volume?

[00:25:35] Who's the biggest team?

[00:25:36] Who's the hotshot?

[00:25:38] Got the Instagram followers.

[00:25:39] Who's got the best suit?

[00:25:40] Who's got the slickest hair?

[00:25:42] Where it's like literally like it's a popularity contest with volume, but they don't tell you about what was their net.

[00:25:49] You know, what was their customer service rating on Google reviews?

[00:25:54] Like they may be the highest in volume, but if they got a three out of five, then they're not very good at servicing their clients.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] And now that I see is starting to become very hot topic.

[00:26:03] Like get your Google reviews.

[00:26:04] It's about relationships.

[00:26:06] Take care of your people.

[00:26:07] Yeah.

[00:26:08] So it's interesting.

[00:26:09] But you asked how we got here.

[00:26:10] You said I was blaming the mortgage brokers back in the day.

[00:26:12] Yeah, playing with these things, overages and, you know.

[00:26:15] Well, I mean, that's always just a part of the business.

[00:26:17] Right.

[00:26:17] But, you know, in 99, when Glass Segal came down, right, that meant banks can now own insurance companies.

[00:26:25] Right.

[00:26:26] They can cross pollinate.

[00:26:27] Yeah.

[00:26:28] People don't realize that the too big to fail, right?

[00:26:31] When they started to implode in 06, 07, they were only a few years old.

[00:26:35] They were babies.

[00:26:36] They never existed in any form.

[00:26:38] It was banking was separate.

[00:26:39] Investment houses were separate.

[00:26:41] Like AIG.

[00:26:42] Not even AIG.

[00:26:43] Like Bank of America.

[00:26:45] Countrywide.

[00:26:46] Well, Countrywide ended up as actually an independent mortgage company.

[00:26:49] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:49] You're right.

[00:26:50] But these finance, the Merrill Lynch's, the Bear Stearns, the Citibanks, these guys had all

[00:26:54] were trying to figure out what they looked like once they started getting into the banking

[00:26:59] world.

[00:26:59] So that's what really, subprime mortgages always existed.

[00:27:02] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:03] You know, my grandfather was a banker.

[00:27:04] He used to always say he had a little bit of his lending portfolio that he could lend

[00:27:08] to the guy down the street up in Rising Sun Avenue in Northeast Philly and say, I know

[00:27:13] these guys' numbers.

[00:27:14] I can make this loan.

[00:27:14] He had an exemption rule.

[00:27:15] Yeah.

[00:27:16] Once the investment houses got into and got these banks, they're like, what's this?

[00:27:22] Right.

[00:27:23] You wrote this dude alone for what?

[00:27:25] We can get in there.

[00:27:26] And then someone else from the inch said, oh, no, and we can collateralize these and turn

[00:27:29] them into other stuff and sell them off to other people and insure them and make all

[00:27:33] this money this way.

[00:27:34] All of a sudden, that jumped the market up.

[00:27:37] So all the growth that I saw that helped me buy my big house and buy all that stuff

[00:27:41] in there, it was manufactured out of nothing real.

[00:27:45] Artificial.

[00:27:45] No real.

[00:27:46] Yeah.

[00:27:47] Back to this, right?

[00:27:48] No real force behind it that said this.

[00:27:50] It was just, it was credit, right?

[00:27:52] And then the mortgage people took the blame on it because they were getting, somebody was

[00:27:55] walking into their office saying, and the big short did this perfectly, like, yo, we'll

[00:27:59] pay you $22,000 to do this mortgage.

[00:28:02] Yeah.

[00:28:02] Or if you can get us with this kind of mortgage.

[00:28:03] Well, the scene with Corral when he's sitting at the table and this guy's explaining how he

[00:28:06] packages up these things and he's like, the AAA with the A mine.

[00:28:11] Right.

[00:28:11] And the B's and the C's.

[00:28:13] He's like, his mind is melting down.

[00:28:16] Too Big to Fail and Big Short were both very good movies.

[00:28:17] He's that guy over here.

[00:28:19] The guys on the street were the two mortgage workers.

[00:28:21] Oh, but it's one of the games.

[00:28:21] I don't know, I do like 10 of them, make about 50K a month or whatever.

[00:28:24] And you're going, yeah, they were doing literally no work.

[00:28:27] There was no actual skill in underwriting these programs, right?

[00:28:30] So now we're in a world where everything's pretty vanilla.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:34] Right?

[00:28:34] So we're in a margin world now, right?

[00:28:36] And so we're competing on margin.

[00:28:38] And because back in the day, servicing was always a problem.

[00:28:40] So you'd create a country where I would create a mortgage, but they would service it.

[00:28:44] Oh, yeah.

[00:28:44] They own the servicing platform.

[00:28:46] Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:46] They make money off the interest every month.

[00:28:47] Mr. Cooper.

[00:28:48] Mr. Cooper.

[00:28:49] Right hanging with Mr. Cooper?

[00:28:51] So now-

[00:28:52] No, no.

[00:28:53] The bane of my existence in the insurance world is-

[00:28:55] Do you remember hanging with Mr. Cooper?

[00:28:57] Of course you do.

[00:28:57] No.

[00:28:58] So that's where-

[00:29:01] That rule created these banks.

[00:29:03] Had no idea what they were doing, really what they were.

[00:29:05] I mean, Travelers was owned by Citibank at one point, right?

[00:29:08] Yeah.

[00:29:08] Travelers, if you look-

[00:29:09] Interesting.

[00:29:09] You always have a different underwriting company.

[00:29:11] Because back in the day, insurance used to be ignorance is bliss, right?

[00:29:15] It's 1980s.

[00:29:16] Oh, I like the zip code you live in.

[00:29:18] Okay, Lower Gwinnett, that's good.

[00:29:19] You got like your name.

[00:29:21] You know what?

[00:29:21] And they're like, okay, this is how much we're going to charge.

[00:29:24] The actuaries had an easy job.

[00:29:25] It was like 13 rating factors.

[00:29:27] Nothing.

[00:29:28] Right?

[00:29:28] And then credit reports come in.

[00:29:29] Yeah.

[00:29:30] Then insurance scores come in, right?

[00:29:31] And then the iPhone comes in and Google Maps and everybody is really tracking you and telling

[00:29:37] you exactly how fast you're driving, telling them, right?

[00:29:39] And now we're in this mode where insurance companies used to bring in a dollar and pay

[00:29:43] 90 cents in claims.

[00:29:44] That was a good insurance category.

[00:29:46] You're making money.

[00:29:47] And back before the 80s, maybe there was just one insurance company in Philadelphia that

[00:29:50] owned a lot of people.

[00:29:52] But now they all have exposed risks to people in Florida and people in California.

[00:29:55] It's all spread out, right?

[00:29:57] And over the last three years, they literally did not know how to price losses because they

[00:30:02] have too much information.

[00:30:04] Right?

[00:30:05] They're getting too much data.

[00:30:07] They're having AI look at trees and roofs from space.

[00:30:10] And no human could ever have enough time to review all these roofs.

[00:30:13] But AI can.

[00:30:14] Yeah.

[00:30:14] And so now they're going, well, don't write this.

[00:30:15] Don't write that.

[00:30:16] Don't write this.

[00:30:17] So they need to go through their own little adjustment here and be like, you know what?

[00:30:20] We need to move back a little bit to ignorance is bliss where we don't maybe want to know

[00:30:23] how fast Rob drove on 202 to get here.

[00:30:26] Right.

[00:30:27] And we know it was fast.

[00:30:29] Right.

[00:30:29] Because we were tracking his phone.

[00:30:31] Google Maps had been selling his stuff forever on it.

[00:30:34] You see what I mean?

[00:30:35] All right.

[00:30:35] All right.

[00:30:36] So cars are plugged into the car.

[00:30:37] Before we even knew the iPhone is once these cars got these devices in there, I mean, they've

[00:30:42] been sharing that information with insurance companies for a long time.

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:46] But the insurance companies have no idea now what to do with all this data.

[00:30:50] Well, inflation, like, you know, when plywood quadruples in a year, you can't really get

[00:30:58] right on that to, you know, sustain.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:02] Well, I think that people blame inflation for a lot of things.

[00:31:07] Yeah.

[00:31:07] But the Texas ice storm in 2021 was the biggest problem facing all things inflation.

[00:31:15] So a friend of mine works for a company that sells chemicals, cleaning chemicals, calls

[00:31:20] me up because I just got called into an emergency meeting.

[00:31:22] You know, that ice storm in Texas is going to screw things up.

[00:31:25] He said that when the power was out in all the houses, right?

[00:31:28] Because this ice storm came out of nowhere.

[00:31:30] Yep.

[00:31:31] Houses were out of power for five weeks, right?

[00:31:34] That refinery was too big to fail.

[00:31:38] Had its own power plant.

[00:31:39] Yeah.

[00:31:40] They had to reroute power to housing because people's, you know, their wells weren't even

[00:31:43] pumping water.

[00:31:44] Yeah.

[00:31:45] So that went offline for five weeks.

[00:31:48] That refinery needs to make so much petrochemicals that they ship all over the world that, you know,

[00:31:56] we don't realize it, that we can't get a plastic bag or we can't get paint for a car or that

[00:32:01] little sensor.

[00:32:02] Someone just rear ends somebody and gets a little damage.

[00:32:05] That little sensor has chips in it that we can't make.

[00:32:07] And that brand new Ford Expedition can't be fixed for six months.

[00:32:10] Right.

[00:32:11] Because the car can't even be deactivated.

[00:32:13] The car won't work without that piece.

[00:32:18] And it's, the car is perfectly fine.

[00:32:19] And after a certain amount of time, you know, they had the total cars.

[00:32:21] If that, so we, they were facing situations that were, it just never happened before.

[00:32:28] Interesting.

[00:32:28] And people blame it on like, you know, politics or something.

[00:32:31] No, no.

[00:32:31] That Texas ice storm has way more impact on our, on how you and I did business over the

[00:32:36] last couple of years than you'd ever realize.

[00:32:38] Because lumber's return price is returned to normal.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:42] Yeah.

[00:32:42] I, I, I more meant like your, your insurance company paying out on claims.

[00:32:48] Like, like we had a house in New Hope, right?

[00:32:50] And we had an insured, it wasn't a big house.

[00:32:53] We had an insured for 500,000.

[00:32:55] And they put a reserve on it for like $800,000.

[00:32:59] Right?

[00:33:00] Because you couldn't get the, you couldn't get contractors in.

[00:33:04] Yeah.

[00:33:04] Not enough contractors.

[00:33:05] Right?

[00:33:05] And they're expensive.

[00:33:06] And they're expensive.

[00:33:07] And like, they can essentially name their price.

[00:33:10] Cause like, if I'm willing to show up, you have to pay me what I want to be paid.

[00:33:13] Yeah.

[00:33:15] And then, so, so that cost is up.

[00:33:19] Your materials are up.

[00:33:20] So we had the, you know, like that house is insured for 500 total.

[00:33:25] It wasn't even a total loss.

[00:33:27] And they put the reserve on $100,000.

[00:33:29] So like.

[00:33:29] But they still paid it.

[00:33:30] They did.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:31] So like you're, but how do you make that up?

[00:33:34] How do you recoup that when you take that claim and then.

[00:33:37] Take rate.

[00:33:38] Times it by a thousand.

[00:33:39] But what if the state says we're not giving you what you want?

[00:33:42] Right?

[00:33:43] So then it becomes this.

[00:33:45] It comes drugged out.

[00:33:46] Right.

[00:33:46] That's why it's been going on for three years.

[00:33:48] Right.

[00:33:48] You know.

[00:33:49] But like.

[00:33:50] What, what.

[00:33:52] What breaks the dam?

[00:33:53] Yeah.

[00:33:53] I feel like we're at a point where it's not.

[00:33:56] You know, we see hard markets, soft markets.

[00:34:00] Right.

[00:34:00] We see the pendulum go out and come back.

[00:34:03] And that always is the normal.

[00:34:07] Flow.

[00:34:08] Of insurance.

[00:34:09] I kind of think we're at now a point where.

[00:34:13] It's like that pendulum is kind of just stuck there.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:17] And, and I don't see it.

[00:34:18] Coming back.

[00:34:20] To where it was.

[00:34:21] I think that that pendulum.

[00:34:23] Is now going to.

[00:34:25] Your grandfather clock.

[00:34:26] Do you know what I mean?

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:28] All right.

[00:34:28] Let me, let me shift.

[00:34:29] This is all super interesting,

[00:34:30] but let me shift so we can get to some of this other stuff with Rob as well.

[00:34:34] Let's get some more topics.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] Hey everyone.

[00:34:36] This is Tim.

[00:34:37] Your favorite bricks and risk co-host.

[00:34:40] But don't tell Sean.

[00:34:41] I hope you're enjoying this episode.

[00:34:43] And I'll get right back to it in a moment.

[00:34:45] Our audience grows through word of mouth.

[00:34:48] So if you would please take a moment of your time.

[00:34:50] And give us a review on the platform you're on.

[00:34:53] That would be fantastic.

[00:34:55] Please also help spread the BNR word.

[00:34:57] By sharing your favorite episode with a friend.

[00:35:00] We greatly appreciate your time and trust.

[00:35:03] Now, back to the show.

[00:35:09] All right.

[00:35:10] So one thing that said online, let's talk about your business.

[00:35:13] Okay.

[00:35:14] Because again, when we do this show and we have guests on,

[00:35:16] we really want to dive into like your business as well.

[00:35:19] So online it said, you promised a new level of attention, insight, and capability.

[00:35:25] So with those things, that to me screams relationship.

[00:35:30] Like you're looking to, someone comes to you, which also kind of like, it's how your company's

[00:35:35] kind of packaged the way I see it.

[00:35:37] It's like, not only do you have those things that you promise, but then when they come in,

[00:35:41] you're like, look, if you want, I can do your mortgage as well.

[00:35:44] Once I sell you this house.

[00:35:46] If you want, I can give you a quote on your homeowner's insurance and your audit and whatever

[00:35:50] else you got, you know, when I sell you this house.

[00:35:53] So you're kind of like, you're capturing the client with the relationship, but then when

[00:35:57] they come in, you take that triple threat mentality to see how can I service them even more?

[00:36:04] Was that kind of part of your strategy?

[00:36:05] Like when you were starting this whole thing, did you want to do all aspects of like a real

[00:36:10] estate deal or a business deal, let's say?

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:12] I mean, when we, when we close a house where one of my realtors sells the house and we do

[00:36:17] the mortgage and we do the insurance, that's the, that's the plan.

[00:36:20] That's the, that's the trident model.

[00:36:22] That's the goal.

[00:36:22] Right.

[00:36:23] You look at companies like, um, compass, right?

[00:36:25] They come out and they, they hire all these realtors and they're spending money like crazy.

[00:36:30] But in the end, most realtors take most of the profit out of, out of every transaction.

[00:36:34] So the potential Fox and Roach proved a long time ago that having these other business

[00:36:39] models is the key to creating value in a business where we like, all we have is ourselves.

[00:36:44] Yeah.

[00:36:45] Right.

[00:36:45] Like I could sell my mortgage company, but really who wants it?

[00:36:48] They want me.

[00:36:49] Exactly.

[00:36:49] The insurance company has a book of business, has value.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:52] Real estate company, same thing.

[00:36:53] What if all your realtors leave tomorrow?

[00:36:54] Exactly.

[00:36:55] There's no value.

[00:36:56] Right.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] And I just, I just went through this.

[00:36:57] So you have an independent real estate brokerage.

[00:37:00] Yeah.

[00:37:00] I ran an independent real estate brokerage for almost 10 years.

[00:37:04] One of my partners chose to leave.

[00:37:06] So the partnership had to end.

[00:37:08] And I was, I did a podcast interview with someone I know who was running a show and the guy was

[00:37:14] like in the tech space.

[00:37:15] He's like, no, I really want to talk to you about partnerships.

[00:37:18] And one of his questions was, well, why didn't you guys just sell it?

[00:37:22] And I said, here's the thing.

[00:37:23] A couple of years ago, someone came to us wanting to buy us.

[00:37:27] Right.

[00:37:28] And it was renting us, but still it was, they were cashing in on our brand equity for building

[00:37:34] something, for having leadership, for having agents, volume, you know, great Google reviews,

[00:37:39] whatever reason they wanted a piece of us.

[00:37:41] They came and said that we ultimately decided not to do it.

[00:37:45] Two years later, now the market changes a little bit.

[00:37:48] It slows down.

[00:37:49] Then someone chooses to leave.

[00:37:51] And it's like, look, your only buyers are really like the other two partners, like me

[00:37:54] and Ryan.

[00:37:55] Yeah.

[00:37:55] And we got to a point and just, he wanted to take off.

[00:37:59] We wanted to do different things.

[00:38:00] We said, at this point, it makes more sense to just take this brand, sunset it, and then

[00:38:06] Ryan and I can go, any agent that wants to come with us can come with us.

[00:38:10] Right.

[00:38:10] And then we're going to go start a team because again, like you, you got ancillary businesses.

[00:38:15] We do development.

[00:38:16] So we flip homes, we buy buildings and we do adaptive reuse, you know, multifamily, things

[00:38:22] like that.

[00:38:22] And we're in title insurance as well.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:25] Neither of those things changed because those were all relationship based.

[00:38:29] Yeah.

[00:38:29] And for us, it's like making that shift to your point.

[00:38:32] Like, what is the brokerage really worth?

[00:38:35] Not much unless someone comes to you and says, this is what I want to pay for it.

[00:38:39] It's worth, it's just like in real estate homes.

[00:38:41] I say all the time, like, well, I got an appraisal and my appraisal said 500,000.

[00:38:45] Look, that's an opinion of value.

[00:38:48] Your home is worth what a buyer will pay for it.

[00:38:51] Yeah.

[00:38:51] If you list it for 500, if that's what your appraisal says and we're in a slow market,

[00:38:55] it might sell for 450.

[00:38:56] If an appraisal gave you 500, you're in a hot market, it might sell for 550.

[00:39:01] So that's what the buyers determine what your home is worth when you go to sell.

[00:39:05] Yeah.

[00:39:05] And with these businesses, it's the same thing.

[00:39:07] I've always found this interesting because we've been talking about insurance now for almost

[00:39:11] a year doing this podcast.

[00:39:13] And like you had always said, you're like, no, like acquisitions is like the number one

[00:39:17] way to grow because all these things are books of business that are worth money on paper.

[00:39:23] These clients, they stay, they're loyal.

[00:39:25] It's customer service.

[00:39:26] It's brand loads, whatever it is, monthly payment.

[00:39:29] And you can sell off insurance books.

[00:39:31] Lending?

[00:39:31] Yeah.

[00:39:32] Same thing.

[00:39:32] It's you have your clients.

[00:39:34] Like what have all your clients left tomorrow?

[00:39:36] What do you really have to sell?

[00:39:37] Nothing.

[00:39:37] Nothing.

[00:39:38] Broker, same way.

[00:39:39] I think that that's maybe where this goes.

[00:39:42] I mean, we've talked to some people and they're like trying to adapt their business to be a sellable

[00:39:50] business.

[00:39:51] Right.

[00:39:52] A sellable asset.

[00:39:53] And I think that's where this, from a real estate and even a mortgage standpoint, it does

[00:40:01] start to go because with all the available data and all of the available technology,

[00:40:07] it's, you can start to think like, I guess it just never was a part of the equation before.

[00:40:14] Yeah.

[00:40:14] But I think once like real estate agents figure this out, like, okay, so I don't necessarily

[00:40:21] have a, an annual renewal client.

[00:40:25] Right.

[00:40:25] But I have, it's more like an Instagram.

[00:40:29] You have like a follower.

[00:40:30] You have a following.

[00:40:31] Right.

[00:40:31] And if you speak to that book of business.

[00:40:36] Right.

[00:40:36] On a quarterly basis or a monthly basis and you have their attention.

[00:40:43] Yep.

[00:40:43] I think you can start to like, it becomes more consistent when you stay in touch with them.

[00:40:48] You're a trusted partner.

[00:40:49] Right.

[00:40:50] Exactly.

[00:40:51] Yeah.

[00:40:51] How has that journey been for you?

[00:40:52] So again, you did insurance first, then lending, then is it mostly residential real estate?

[00:40:58] Yeah.

[00:40:58] It's all, it's all right.

[00:40:59] So if it's all residential, did you ever think about, Hey, maybe I'll just start a team

[00:41:03] with a big brokerage or not makes sense for me to just start the independent brokers from

[00:41:07] scratch.

[00:41:08] I'll be the broker record.

[00:41:09] I'll practice.

[00:41:10] Well, let's, let's start there.

[00:41:11] Right.

[00:41:11] So we're a buyer driven model.

[00:41:13] Yep.

[00:41:13] Right.

[00:41:13] So I'm used to helping young people buy their first house.

[00:41:17] I'm doing 22 years by their first house and help them move up to their second house.

[00:41:21] Right.

[00:41:22] Right.

[00:41:22] And you know, when I did the last round of refinance booms, right.

[00:41:25] I always kept telling people like people came to me, Oh, you want to start talking?

[00:41:27] I'm like, Nope.

[00:41:28] I'm like, we're going to, we're going to fall off a cliff.

[00:41:30] I am telling people we're going to fall off a cliff here.

[00:41:33] Like save all the money that you're making right now.

[00:41:35] Because they were saying like, look at all these deals.

[00:41:36] Look at all this money that's on the table.

[00:41:38] Oh, you're missing out on Rob.

[00:41:39] You don't want a title company.

[00:41:40] I'm like, yep.

[00:41:41] And I'm going to be the first one to tell you that once those payrolls are coming in

[00:41:44] and there's nothing, nothing coming in, we're going to want to lay off half these people.

[00:41:47] And I don't want to be responsible for somebody who I, if you come to work for me, like you

[00:41:51] got me, like I'm, I'm in it with you.

[00:41:53] Like you, you, I appreciate you coming to work for me and I want to make sure you're doing

[00:41:57] all the things in your life you want to do.

[00:41:59] Yep.

[00:41:59] Even if that means eventually at some point you wanting to move on from me, did that, you

[00:42:02] know what I mean?

[00:42:02] Like you have to be, you got to be okay with that.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] You have to be like, like, you know, that way when it comes to stuff.

[00:42:08] And, um, you don't have to be that way.

[00:42:10] Like let's be clear about it.

[00:42:11] You should.

[00:42:12] But when I'm doing these refinances, I'm telling people like, oh, you're at two and a half percentage

[00:42:16] and, or we're at 15 year.

[00:42:17] I'm like, we're never going to see you again.

[00:42:18] Like joking.

[00:42:19] Like we're never going to see each other again.

[00:42:20] Yeah.

[00:42:21] Right.

[00:42:21] This is it.

[00:42:22] This is it.

[00:42:22] Like stick with it.

[00:42:23] So like you think about it.

[00:42:24] I've had so many people ask me, should I do this?

[00:42:26] I'm like, no, you shouldn't.

[00:42:27] So you think about all those houses that are there that are in 15 years and the twos or

[00:42:32] they're all just invisible now.

[00:42:33] And they're just being erased right off the Google maps because they're never going to come

[00:42:37] for sale.

[00:42:37] Yeah.

[00:42:38] Yep.

[00:42:38] They're like, uh, I forget what the, I forget what the percentage is.

[00:42:44] It's like something like 60 or 70% of all the people who hold residential mortgages in

[00:42:49] the U S are under 5%.

[00:42:52] Under.

[00:42:53] So just think of six, seven out of 10.

[00:42:55] Well, remember you and I were doing it and you're like, Hey, maybe I'll start calling some

[00:42:59] of these people in like these neighborhoods.

[00:43:01] Just see if I can like turn something up.

[00:43:03] And people are like, no, like you're crazy.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:07] You're not going to be able to move up.

[00:43:09] You want to, I mean, that's, that's the big move at the shore.

[00:43:11] Yeah.

[00:43:11] Right.

[00:43:12] So a lot of the shore agents with shore is starting to soften a little bit.

[00:43:15] Yeah.

[00:43:15] I could see that.

[00:43:17] It should.

[00:43:17] Where is that?

[00:43:18] Ridiculous.

[00:43:19] Shore is my other issue.

[00:43:20] Right.

[00:43:20] So I did, we bought our shore house in 04 and I sold it 16 months ago.

[00:43:24] Yeah.

[00:43:25] Had a great run with it.

[00:43:26] My kids are in high school now.

[00:43:27] And so I just like, we don't have any time.

[00:43:30] Right.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:30] We did like, and we weren't getting.

[00:43:31] You could go rent.

[00:43:32] Go do a couple of weeks.

[00:43:33] We, we, we, we actually didn't even get a chance to do it.

[00:43:36] We were on college visits this, this summer.

[00:43:37] So we weren't doing anything shore related.

[00:43:39] But again, we were there for 18 years and, and.

[00:43:41] That's awesome.

[00:43:42] It ate up a good chunk of your vacation money.

[00:43:44] Needless to say, when you're carrying a place.

[00:43:45] But what I learned was that there's always calls to be like, Hey, you want to try to move

[00:43:48] into this space, but when the PPP money came out, so many people borrowed that like the

[00:43:54] short, like before July, 2020.

[00:43:56] Okay.

[00:43:57] So that's the summer of COVID.

[00:43:58] Yep.

[00:43:58] No house in Avalon that wasn't on ocean front or bay front sold for over 3 million.

[00:44:05] So anything on the interior streets, anything that wasn't with a front row of view to water.

[00:44:10] So anything in front row of view to water that sold over 3 million.

[00:44:14] Yeah.

[00:44:14] That's the only part we saw a number in the threes or over was on the certain spot.

[00:44:18] That had certain views of water.

[00:44:21] And July, 2020, all rules came off.

[00:44:23] Oh yeah.

[00:44:23] Just the wheel.

[00:44:24] I mean, and I actually tracked that market so well that I have a database built.

[00:44:30] That's a 16 page spreadsheet that has, because it's easy to do this when we have a grid system.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:37] You can actually turn the blocks into.

[00:44:40] And so I broke it up into 16 different categories.

[00:44:43] I said, this is a neighborhood.

[00:44:44] This is a neighborhood.

[00:44:44] Oh wow.

[00:44:45] So down the shore, I can actually predict what houses will sell for based on what they're

[00:44:50] currently being marketed for now.

[00:44:51] And when they flip into this closed transaction, I can tell you if they started, what the price

[00:44:55] came down to.

[00:44:55] And actually when they're in active mode, I can say that house is going to sell for this

[00:45:00] number.

[00:45:00] Wow.

[00:45:01] And so actually other agents at our office down the shore actually call me now.

[00:45:05] What's the number?

[00:45:06] They gave me the address.

[00:45:07] You got to talk to those NAR lawsuit.

[00:45:09] People would be like, yo, I got some straight up data on the South Jersey shore.

[00:45:13] But while we were slow, I built it.

[00:45:15] Right?

[00:45:15] So we're slow.

[00:45:16] I'm like, all right, you know what?

[00:45:16] I want to become the expert on this market.

[00:45:19] So I know exactly what things are going to sell for.

[00:45:21] I had a family.

[00:45:22] My son goes to Malvern and my daughter goes to Episcopal.

[00:45:26] And, you know, lots of families there own places down there.

[00:45:29] And I've had them come up to me and, you know, their house is listed and it's not selling.

[00:45:33] And I'm like, well, based on my model, it should be at this number.

[00:45:36] You know, and then like a few weeks later, I see it drop down to my number and I'm like,

[00:45:40] but someone else is listing it.

[00:45:41] Right, right.

[00:45:43] That's great.

[00:45:44] You know, so.

[00:45:45] Very cool.

[00:45:45] But at least you know that they're listening to you.

[00:45:49] All right.

[00:45:49] So here's another one.

[00:45:50] I'm going to shift again.

[00:45:52] One question we like to ask is, again, we've talked about some positive things.

[00:45:56] iPhone.

[00:45:57] You know?

[00:45:57] Yeah.

[00:45:58] Yes.

[00:45:59] My boy.

[00:46:00] I didn't even have to ask it.

[00:46:02] He knew.

[00:46:02] Yes.

[00:46:03] You're the man, Rob.

[00:46:04] Absolutely.

[00:46:04] All right.

[00:46:05] So, no, I wasn't going to ask that, but I do love that you dropped that answer for my

[00:46:10] other boy right here.

[00:46:11] I enjoyed.

[00:46:12] Biggest struggles.

[00:46:14] Right.

[00:46:15] Biggest.

[00:46:15] Biggest struggles is one of the questions we started asking my brother, Ryan.

[00:46:19] He can be like Mr. Mooney here a little bit.

[00:46:20] You know, glass half empty sometimes, which is good because it gives you perspective.

[00:46:24] Like I'm very optimistic.

[00:46:25] I'm very glass half full.

[00:46:27] So one of the questions we asked, what are some of your biggest struggles?

[00:46:30] And you said finding time and saying no.

[00:46:33] Why do you find those two to be, you know, kind of hard for you?

[00:46:37] Well, when I first got in the business mortgage person at Remax, I was 22 years old.

[00:46:41] Twenty.

[00:46:42] Twenty two.

[00:46:42] Yeah.

[00:46:43] Twenty two.

[00:46:43] I was a baby.

[00:46:44] Everybody thought I was older.

[00:46:45] Right.

[00:46:46] Right.

[00:46:46] Because I carried myself a little bit older.

[00:46:47] But I used to say, if you want to be paid like a doctor, you got to be on call like a

[00:46:51] doctor.

[00:46:52] Right.

[00:46:53] But unfortunately, that's a hard habit to kick.

[00:46:56] I still have realtors right now who give out my cell phone and a client will text me

[00:46:59] at 10 o'clock in the morning or 10 o'clock at night.

[00:47:01] And I'm going looking for a pre-approval letter.

[00:47:04] And I'm like a Saturday night, 10 o'clock.

[00:47:06] And I'm like, I just recently started being like, no, I'm not responding to that person.

[00:47:11] And it's like worst possible time for business.

[00:47:13] But I'm like, I just have to start somewhere.

[00:47:15] Like, yeah, boundaries up.

[00:47:17] And I don't think this guy's going to use me anyway.

[00:47:19] I think he's only using me for the letter.

[00:47:20] That's a big problem I'm having right now.

[00:47:22] We're trying to just get a quote, even though all the quotes are going to pretty much be

[00:47:25] the same.

[00:47:26] Well, most of the weeks, they should be almost always exactly the same.

[00:47:28] Because I'm coming from the same spot.

[00:47:29] Both of them in the same place.

[00:47:30] So it's like, it's like, it's like, yo, I'm giving you service and you're still going to

[00:47:34] go use the guy who won't take your call.

[00:47:35] Right.

[00:47:36] Exactly.

[00:47:37] It's, it's, it's kicking the nuts.

[00:47:39] I don't know other way to describe it.

[00:47:40] And they're like, well, what's the, and the realtors are like, well, you always help me.

[00:47:43] I'm like, yeah, I get it.

[00:47:43] When the volume was through the roof, I could be there at any point in time, but I know that

[00:47:49] you're not writing a deal at 10 o'clock at night.

[00:47:51] That's not going to go to a listing agent.

[00:47:53] It's going to sit and be compared to five other deals.

[00:47:55] This timeless of the essence isn't, it's not 2006 where they're like, we're going to get

[00:48:00] a deal done at 10 o'clock at night on Saturday.

[00:48:02] We're not taking offers till Tuesday.

[00:48:04] I actually find that kind of refreshing.

[00:48:06] It is.

[00:48:07] Yeah.

[00:48:07] You're kind of like, cool.

[00:48:08] There's actually some boundaries in the market.

[00:48:10] We talked about this.

[00:48:11] Remember when we had, uh, Ryan Petrucci on?

[00:48:14] Yep.

[00:48:14] Yeah.

[00:48:15] And he's a, yeah.

[00:48:16] Yeah.

[00:48:17] He's a, he's a, um, he's a, a listing only agent and he had to train himself.

[00:48:24] We talk about this training, right?

[00:48:25] So like, you know, going boundaries or whatever you want to do is he had to turn away business

[00:48:32] by our business to, to find his way into what he wanted to do listings only, you know,

[00:48:41] but it's similar.

[00:48:42] It's like, you've been doing this for, for quite a long time.

[00:48:46] Right.

[00:48:47] Um, I like to use the phrase, I don't need practice quoting insurance for some people

[00:48:54] that I'm like, I know that there, I'm like one, one kind of like spoke in the wheel of

[00:49:00] like six different people that they're going to reach out to is like, I got stuff to work

[00:49:05] on.

[00:49:06] I got clients that are doing business with me or, you know, want to do business with me.

[00:49:11] I know that I'm going to be writing the insurance.

[00:49:13] Yeah.

[00:49:14] But at the same point, when you have like referral partners that you're, you have a relationship

[00:49:19] with, I think it's more important to be speaking to that person.

[00:49:24] So that they're aware of like, okay, well, if you set them up.

[00:49:30] In the right way, in the right manner, then it becomes kind of, listen, here's Rob's

[00:49:35] information or here's Sean or Tim's information, you know, give them a shout tomorrow.

[00:49:40] But maybe it's harder in real estate because of the market right now and, and what they're,

[00:49:44] you know, they're onto a deal and they're trying to get it done.

[00:49:47] Then it, it's, it's a, uh, it's a fine line to walk, you know?

[00:49:52] Yeah.

[00:49:52] And margins are squeezed.

[00:49:53] Yeah.

[00:49:54] Like, uh, we had a deal come, uh, one of my agents works for me, had a deal buying

[00:49:58] Westchester and he sent me the IFW from their, their current broker.

[00:50:02] And it was, the broker was making less than 1% based on the market.

[00:50:05] And I said to the realtor, I was like, even if I beat this and I go down to a half a percent,

[00:50:09] what am I doing?

[00:50:10] Right.

[00:50:11] Like, and another realtor sent me, a guy calls me up and says, Hey, I want to.

[00:50:15] Can you explain that?

[00:50:16] Like for just for some people.

[00:50:17] Yeah.

[00:50:18] Like, so when you place that mortgage and you go to lock it, it's supposed to make a

[00:50:21] margin.

[00:50:21] The industry average is 2%, right?

[00:50:23] That's what most places are trying to make.

[00:50:25] Like if you're a big, um, rocket mortgage or one of these big guys, big service or guarantee

[00:50:31] rate, they have even a bigger ability to make margins, bigger numbers because they have

[00:50:37] buying power in their rates and they're, and they're servicing their own loans.

[00:50:40] And there's more, there's more, uh, premium coming back.

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:44] Um, whereas we use different banks that give us a certain amount as a brokerage and like

[00:50:48] offset.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:50] Like I, like I, when someone says it sells a rate and I can see the down payment, I know

[00:50:53] the credit score, I'm like, I know I can go out into the marketplace and price what they're

[00:50:56] making on that loan and assume if it's a bigger company, they can make a little bit more.

[00:51:00] That's fine.

[00:51:00] I don't have any of the expenses.

[00:51:01] So I'm pretty mean and lean on my margins.

[00:51:03] Like my first rate to you is going to be like the best I can do.

[00:51:07] I don't want to get into one of these.

[00:51:08] Someone's going to quote you an eighth lower.

[00:51:10] I just want to be like, yo, this is what I know I can do for you.

[00:51:12] Here it is.

[00:51:13] And right.

[00:51:13] And usually if they call somebody else, they're like, yeah, your rate was lower.

[00:51:15] I'm like, yeah.

[00:51:16] Right.

[00:51:16] No shit.

[00:51:17] Like that's, that's what I'm trying to do here.

[00:51:20] Trying to win your business, you know?

[00:51:22] So that's great.

[00:51:22] You know, I don't, I don't want to get, I'm, you know, I'm not a car salesman.

[00:51:25] I don't want to get into like, let me go check with my manager.

[00:51:27] No, it's just like, this is, this is who I am.

[00:51:28] The deal's the deal.

[00:51:29] Yeah.

[00:51:29] And, um, this guy called me up and said, cause I still have other agents that work at

[00:51:33] Remax and other places that use us for mortgages and services because we have good service.

[00:51:38] Like relationships.

[00:51:39] And, um, and, uh, he said, oh yeah, she gave me four names of four mortgage people.

[00:51:43] She works for us.

[00:51:44] I want to see which one you guys need the best.

[00:51:45] I go, I'm out.

[00:51:45] And he's like, what?

[00:51:47] I'm not giving you anything.

[00:51:48] And I called her up and I said, listen, I'm like, don't give it like, give out my name

[00:51:52] and then tell him to go search somewhere else.

[00:51:54] Don't give them four people, you know, cause you're going to make all of us starve.

[00:51:57] Right.

[00:51:57] Yeah.

[00:51:58] Like that's, that can't happen.

[00:51:59] That can't happen.

[00:52:00] I don't want to know that this guy who I know who works a different company who may not

[00:52:05] have other revenue streams that I have is now even cutting it more.

[00:52:08] Like it's, that's where I think we're heading.

[00:52:10] We're going to head to just a lot less people.

[00:52:13] Yeah.

[00:52:13] That's what it is.

[00:52:13] Yeah.

[00:52:14] There's not going to be these big brokerage houses with, you know, 120 agents at it.

[00:52:18] Like we're at one and a half million realtors right now, somewhere around there.

[00:52:23] I think it's probably a lot less.

[00:52:26] We went down, I think we thinned out down into like the $800,000 range or $800,000, $800,000

[00:52:32] realtor range, maybe at like 2012.

[00:52:34] You know, that all, that took like three, four years to thin out from like 2008, 2009.

[00:52:39] So it's going to drop off.

[00:52:41] Yeah.

[00:52:41] There's first of all, there's so many people who do it like one or two deals a year.

[00:52:46] Right.

[00:52:46] Like more than half of all realtors in this country do about one to two deals a year.

[00:52:52] More than half.

[00:52:53] Actually, the stat was about 50% do zero to one deal a year.

[00:52:58] So they don't even do one whole deal.

[00:53:00] And I'm not saying that to be rude.

[00:53:03] I'm not saying that to be opinionated.

[00:53:04] I'm saying that's the fact because it's cheap to get your real estate license.

[00:53:08] You're chasing a dream, you know, you go to some shop and they promise you the world and

[00:53:14] you don't know how to run your business and you're not consistent and you just think

[00:53:18] it's going to come to you because you are you.

[00:53:20] And that's not how it works.

[00:53:22] It's cheap to use MLS.

[00:53:23] Exactly.

[00:53:24] And I think, I think right now, I think a lot of the low barrier to entries in real estate

[00:53:32] are what cause a lot of its high rate of failure because people can easily get in.

[00:53:36] They can easily get out.

[00:53:37] Yeah.

[00:53:38] All right.

[00:53:38] So one last one for you, your quote, which I thought was really good.

[00:53:43] Interesting.

[00:53:44] Opportunity is not a lengthy visitor.

[00:53:47] Why did, why'd you share that one?

[00:53:49] Believe it or not, over the summer, we took my son to Syracuse.

[00:53:53] I've never been to Syracuse.

[00:53:54] I didn't even go on college visits.

[00:53:55] Don't go in the wintertime.

[00:53:57] I partied there.

[00:53:58] I did actually say that.

[00:53:59] One night on the way to a bachelor party.

[00:54:01] Oh, you've been there once?

[00:54:02] I've been there once.

[00:54:02] One night on the way to a bachelor party in Montreal, we did a piss stop in Syracuse.

[00:54:06] It was pretty fun.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:07] It's a pretty special place.

[00:54:08] And we were there in July.

[00:54:09] So everything's green.

[00:54:10] So I say to my son, Brandon, I'm like, Brandon, I'm like, just letting you know, it ain't going

[00:54:12] to be like this.

[00:54:13] This is the only time you're going to see it like this.

[00:54:15] This is four months a year.

[00:54:16] This might be three weeks a year.

[00:54:17] I don't know what it gets like up here.

[00:54:20] But another parent told us, it's actually getting a little warmer up there because the climate's

[00:54:23] kind of shifting.

[00:54:24] People are saying that we're like a Richmond here in Philadelphia.

[00:54:27] We have Richmond's climate now.

[00:54:29] Yeah.

[00:54:29] Because part of the reason why we're back to profitability insurance is that we had 700

[00:54:33] some odd days of no snow.

[00:54:35] Yeah.

[00:54:36] That saved us.

[00:54:37] Yeah.

[00:54:38] People don't talk about that enough.

[00:54:40] Well, and the tornadoes and hurricanes, you know, over the last couple of years have

[00:54:44] been quieted down a little bit.

[00:54:47] But that was on a bench.

[00:54:49] Oh, that quote?

[00:54:50] No way.

[00:54:51] Someone wrote it?

[00:54:52] No, it was on a...

[00:54:53] Someone donated the bench and put it right there.

[00:54:55] They're outside the admissions office.

[00:54:56] And you saw it and you read it and it just hit home with you.

[00:54:59] Why did it hit home with you?

[00:55:01] Because it's true.

[00:55:02] Yeah.

[00:55:03] Right?

[00:55:03] So as a business owner, we always sit here and like, what do I need to be doing?

[00:55:08] What do I need to be doing?

[00:55:09] I had a friend that, I don't know if you knew him growing up, but his dad owned a restaurant.

[00:55:13] It was a pretty...

[00:55:13] His family had owned it and it was pretty successful.

[00:55:15] It was in Montgomery County.

[00:55:17] And he said to me, his dad has not passed away, but his dad lost the business.

[00:55:21] And I said to him, what happened?

[00:55:23] He goes, my dad, you know, he was out playing golf when he should have been reinvesting in

[00:55:28] his business.

[00:55:29] And when I tell you that stuck with me.

[00:55:32] Wow.

[00:55:32] Right?

[00:55:33] So like we talk about being a buyer driven model, I've always been a buyer driven model.

[00:55:36] There's always been plenty of buyers.

[00:55:38] Right.

[00:55:38] But in the last year, I've switched to like heavily marketing for selling, for selling

[00:55:43] leads.

[00:55:43] Like, and that's, you know, where I'm now taking the lead role where I always had agents

[00:55:47] that worked for me that really were great or great with buyers.

[00:55:50] I call them like, um, they're almost like, um, you go to a car lot and you meet a dealer's

[00:55:56] guy on the lot.

[00:55:56] He just takes great care of you.

[00:55:58] Right.

[00:55:58] You're just like, that's what if you're a car dealer, customer service, like the front

[00:56:01] line, they walk you through the process, they get, they sell you the car you want.

[00:56:04] You get a good, you know what I mean?

[00:56:05] Like that's, that's how a lot of my agents that work for me operate.

[00:56:08] Like they're very good at when I hand them a warm lead, everything lines up.

[00:56:11] They take such good care of them.

[00:56:13] People love them.

[00:56:14] People talk like they just, it's fantastic.

[00:56:17] So as a business owner, you know, I want five of those guys.

[00:56:20] Yep.

[00:56:21] Right.

[00:56:21] But as far as getting listings, that's where it's a little bit more challenging.

[00:56:25] We got to put your kind of self out there.

[00:56:26] You have to kind of be the face and say, I want to list and market your property.

[00:56:30] Yeah.

[00:56:31] You know, it's, it's, it's different.

[00:56:32] It's, it's very different.

[00:56:33] Different level of credibility.

[00:56:35] It's funny.

[00:56:35] And I never valued it because I was like, I want buyers.

[00:56:38] Yeah.

[00:56:39] Cause my model feeds buyers, but right now that's changing.

[00:56:42] Buyers I found personally to always be a little bit more rewarding because they're trying to get to somewhere.

[00:56:48] Like I'm here now.

[00:56:50] Here's where I want to.

[00:56:50] If I'm selling, I'm trying to get to somewhere.

[00:56:52] Yeah.

[00:56:53] Here's where I want.

[00:56:53] Well, you'd also be a buyer.

[00:56:56] They want to get to somewhere.

[00:56:58] Sellers, you know, there could be a life event.

[00:57:00] They could be older.

[00:57:02] You know, they could just say, Hey, I'm cashing out of this.

[00:57:04] I want to go buy something else.

[00:57:05] So there's lots of different reasons why people sell.

[00:57:08] And again, working with any client in real estate, buy, sell, rent, invest.

[00:57:11] It's all rewarding.

[00:57:13] Buyers though, especially first time home buyers to me were always so much fun because having all that knowledge and experience and just, and believing in the relationship, you're just there to, to give, give them what they need so that they can make very good decisions for themselves.

[00:57:29] But they can ask you or me any question they want.

[00:57:33] 99 times over a hundred, we're probably going to have a good answer for them.

[00:57:36] The one out of a hundred is probably, okay, I got to go talk to an attorney or you got to go talk to an attorney because this is outside the scope of like normalcy, let's call it.

[00:57:45] But yeah, I've always found buyers to be fun.

[00:57:47] I've always run, you know, probably about 60, 40, 60 listing, 40 buyer, you know, and I work with investors.

[00:57:54] I work with landlords.

[00:57:55] Like I do everything based on relationship.

[00:57:57] If someone says, Hey, I got a single family house in Philly.

[00:57:59] I want to rent it out.

[00:58:00] Can you help me?

[00:58:01] Of course.

[00:58:01] I probably sold them that house.

[00:58:03] Yeah.

[00:58:03] Or it's like, you know, I've known them for five or 15 or 20 years and I just want them to be taken care of.

[00:58:09] So I really appreciate you sharing that quote.

[00:58:12] I take it a different way.

[00:58:13] So my big thing in life is like, there's going to be like one life event that is going to be like put in front of you and you have to get it done and get it done.

[00:58:24] Opportunity is not a lengthy visitor.

[00:58:25] Yeah.

[00:58:26] Like it's here and gone.

[00:58:27] Yeah.

[00:58:27] And so when it does present upon it or you or that once in a lifetime opportunity, it'll be gone.

[00:58:33] Yeah.

[00:58:33] Great.

[00:58:35] All right.

[00:58:35] Before we shut it down, this was an unbelievable conversation, by the way.

[00:58:38] Really appreciate all your insight.

[00:58:40] Thanks for having me on.

[00:58:41] Why don't you share with the audience, listeners and watchers where they can learn more about you and everything you got going on?

[00:58:47] Yeah.

[00:58:47] Well, obviously you can reach us via our website, right?

[00:58:50] Northpoint360.com.

[00:58:51] You can always reach out to me directly.

[00:58:54] I do love walking people through the home buying process.

[00:58:58] Nice.

[00:58:58] That is my, that, like I can spend 15 minutes if you want to be fast.

[00:59:03] I can spend an hour with you on the initial consultation.

[00:59:05] Yeah.

[00:59:05] I'll walk you through what contracts look like, how the market is, people are reacting.

[00:59:09] I'll share thoughts of what, if, go ahead.

[00:59:11] Will you share your Excel spreadsheet if people are buying down the shore?

[00:59:15] No.

[00:59:15] And they reach out to you?

[00:59:16] No, but I will show them.

[00:59:18] I will sit down with them and show them on my computer or I'll do a Teams.

[00:59:21] What if they want you to buy the house?

[00:59:23] They need to pay a monthly fee for that.

[00:59:25] Yeah, that is proprietary.

[00:59:27] And I won't even share it with the other realtors in the office.

[00:59:29] They give me the address, I plug the numbers in and I give it back to them.

[00:59:32] I don't even, it does not.

[00:59:33] I love it.

[00:59:34] It does not.

[00:59:34] I mean, it's, it took a long time to build and it's accurate.

[00:59:38] So, you know, I'm very confident in that.

[00:59:41] But, you know, that part of the process, I really do still enjoy.

[00:59:44] It's a lost art right now because buyers, you know, we're telling people to, you know,

[00:59:48] you have to waive, you know, someone else waived their home inspection.

[00:59:51] Someone else is waiving their mortgage contingency.

[00:59:53] The crazy stuff that's happening right now is like, at what point do other realtors just

[00:59:58] say, you know, we got to stop this.

[01:00:00] Stop doing it.

[01:00:01] But it's just not there.

[01:00:02] It's not being taught by the KWs and some other places that are just like.

[01:00:07] Deals, deals, deals.

[01:00:08] Deals, deals, deals, get paid.

[01:00:09] It's like, sometimes you got to eventually say, who do I want to be?

[01:00:12] And who do I want to work with that's going to like say this is.

[01:00:15] And that's the most challenging part of this market right now.

[01:00:19] It is, yeah.

[01:00:19] Where do you fit in?

[01:00:20] This exact conversation was when we had, what's his name that we just did?

[01:00:25] The name I can't pronounce.

[01:00:27] The last name.

[01:00:28] Hmm?

[01:00:28] That's Shuck, S-C-H-U-C-K.

[01:00:31] No.

[01:00:32] Pretty easy, man.

[01:00:32] No, the guy with the podcast, the 210.

[01:00:37] Oh, you're talking about Garrett.

[01:00:38] Garrett Maroon.

[01:00:40] Oh, yeah, that's right.

[01:00:41] I was thinking this must.

[01:00:42] But like, could you please let him close it out and share his information?

[01:00:45] Dear God.

[01:00:47] You can always finish left and finish off.

[01:00:48] You can email me.

[01:00:49] You can call me.

[01:00:50] I don't know.

[01:00:50] Email.

[01:00:51] So, LinkedIn.

[01:00:52] Yeah, put it on the bottom of the screen.

[01:00:53] Should be right here.

[01:00:54] We'll float it through.

[01:00:55] Yo.

[01:00:56] What?

[01:00:56] All right.

[01:00:57] So now that he's got that out, what do you want to say, bro?

[01:00:59] No, it's like finding what you want to be, right?

[01:01:03] True.

[01:01:04] You know, do you want to be the deal guy?

[01:01:06] Do you want to be the relationship guy?

[01:01:08] Yeah, it is.

[01:01:09] Find the path that suits your best.

[01:01:11] There's nothing wrong with focusing on deals if that's your business model.

[01:01:13] You just got to know what lane you're in.

[01:01:15] You know, all three of us just happen to be more into the relationship lane.

[01:01:18] And it's like, that's why we've grown independent businesses from scratch.

[01:01:22] So.

[01:01:23] But let me close you out with this.

[01:01:24] Yeah.

[01:01:24] In 1995, there was Fox and Lazo.

[01:01:29] Yeah.

[01:01:29] And then there was a big Prudential office downtown.

[01:01:33] I'm pointing to Philly.

[01:01:34] Right.

[01:01:35] Philly's in that direction right now.

[01:01:37] That's where I'm heading after this.

[01:01:38] Yeah.

[01:01:39] And market was slow.

[01:01:41] We're coming out of the recession in 94, I think it was, right?

[01:01:45] And someone came up with the idea.

[01:01:48] He's like, you know what?

[01:01:48] You, I should merge all these groups together.

[01:01:51] Yeah.

[01:01:51] And, and, you know, Fox and Roach sold, I think for $600 million.

[01:01:54] Yeah.

[01:01:55] And I feel like right now, us being in our forties, we might be at one of those opportunities.

[01:02:01] Yeah.

[01:02:01] One of those moments.

[01:02:02] So when you reach out to me and say, right, I'm going to come on our podcast.

[01:02:05] You know what I mean?

[01:02:06] There's, these are the little things when the universe starts to speak to you.

[01:02:08] Totally.

[01:02:09] Listen.

[01:02:11] I love it.

[01:02:12] Awesome, man.

[01:02:13] Thank you.

[01:02:13] Well, that's all we have for this one, folks.

[01:02:16] Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of Bricks and Risk.

[01:02:20] See you soon.

[01:02:22] Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk.

[01:02:26] Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate

[01:02:32] you sharing your time with us today.

[01:02:34] You can find all BNR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your

[01:02:41] podcast content.

[01:02:42] Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.