Always Be Networking, Choose Relationships Over Transactions | Episode 125

A B N. Always be networking. There are some people that will say, I'm not a natural networker. I don't like going into a room with 10 people, 50 people, 500 people. I don't like that. I feel uncomfortable. I'm a little bit more introverted. I'm a little less social. It's fine. So I don't want to do it. But do you know what you do? You do one-on-one networking. The people, if you were a little bit more introverted and less social, you probably have like a handful, probably less than 10 really amazing relationships in your life because you've hand-selected them and have spent a lot of time and effort to like cultivate that friendship or that business relationship or a family member, whoever it is, like you have these people that you just have mutual respect for. You have a great relationship. Network with them. Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

This episode is brought to you by Property Management Redefined. PMR is not just managing properties, we're creating partnerships that build long-term success for property owners. John and his team can be reached at manage at goPMR.com or by phone 267-753-6005. Tim. Yes, Sean. Who's a good client for PMR?

Property management redefined is looking for property owners who value three things accountability, reliability, and a results-driven approach. You want to maximize returns, but still provide client and tenant satisfaction.

There's a lot of property managers out there.

Yes, there are. What does PMR do really well? Biggest thing is they're seamless and they're worry-free. So with that approach in mind, it allows the property owner to put their trust in PMR and know that the results will be there. The other thing I think a property owner is really going to value because they do it so well is that they have a local expert team, boots on the ground, managing your properties and your tenants' expectations every day so that you feel good about your investments.

We have millions of listeners out there. Tens of millions. If they want more information, how do they find PMR?

Right here, guys. We'll take good care of you. I'm Tim.

And I am Tim's soulful co-host, Sean Mooney. Soulful. You can find me on the Instagram channel at Sean Mooney. You can guess how to spell that. You, if you follow today, can become my 114th follower. Go out, get on the World Wide Web, link up.

We were just talking about Mr. Mooney's amazing Instagram social media strategy. Yes. Which is where the dot king came from. I'm not going to give you all the details because you're going to need there's going to be have to be a little bit of mystery here as to why we call him the dot king and why his Instagram account has an A. Oh, I'm sorry, the old one. The old one was an AI generated picture of just someone fishing. On a dock. That was the first image. That was version one of V V2 is Parker Lewis because I made fun of him for him. I made fun of him with that one time. Uh with a picture of Glenside uh Wikipedia page in the background. So you're gonna have to go to his. He gave him everything. You're gonna have to go to M-O-O-N-E-E's account to understand why you can be his 114th follower.

So and funny too, we were we were talking, people aren't impressed out there with my profile because Instagram tells you how many uh people visit your page. There's like 4,400 monthly viewers on my my Instagram page.

Unbelievable.

But no one wants to follow you though. It tells me the algorithm tells me I need to step up my game and put a little more emphasis on my stories and my reels and my posts.

Well, if some industry experts would actually tell you today, Gary V included, shout out to Gary V, that followers don't really matter anymore because you don't have a lot of them, but you have a lot of engagement, especially for the amount of followers you have. So the experts would be right.

I'm not uh an Instagram guy, so uh they're looking, they're just not talking. All right, we'll be getting into today. Today we're gonna be talking about industry relationships and you know, one approach in business as utilizing relationships as a lead gen strategy only, right?

So, like, all right, so I wrote I wrote that as I put most of the bullets down. What comes to mind for you when I said that? Stop treating your industry relationships as lead gen only. What do you want to say about that?

What I want to say about that is it reminds me of you know when I used to do a lot of networking groups.

Uh-huh. Likewise.

And I was the president of the Lower Gwynedd Business Association for a year.

Shout out to the Lower Gwynedd Business Association. Until I got axed. That you came in with too many weird hats. Yeah. No, he's he's not fit to be present. This guy's not very busy. He's not fit to be president. We just need to show him the door.

Um, no, but it was a good time, good uh, good learning experience for me. But we used to have events all the time, um, you know, at different businesses, uh, and you'd meet a bunch of people and people that are in, and what this topic today kind of reminds me of is the person when you go into the networking event, and you're just trying to meet and I'm just trying to meet people. Hey, what's your name? What do you do? Trying to find out more about them is like what's your sign? The guy or the gal in the room that's you know, positioning themselves, and they're not really concerned with what you have to say. It's like hi, I'm Janet. Here's my business card. Do you know anyone looking to buy or sell? Yep. The professional, the speed dating networker. Yeah.

Um, so this is kind of let's how many cards can I collect?

We have an avatar of the today's topic of what that person is. Yeah, yeah. It's Janet, the real estate person who's like, here's my card. Do you know anybody? Okay, I'll follow up within a week to see if you found anybody and since last week when we met. You know, that yeah, that uh that prototype, that template. All right. So that's what it in my mind. That's kind of what this is.

It's a good example. What do you got? Uh, I'd say the same thing too. Like, let's say, let's go with networking groups. Now, again, I ran a networking group. You were part of it. We ran it for a better part of five years called the Northwest Philadelphia Network. Shout out to NWPN. Yeah. Uh, it was great. We had a website. We had over 30 paying members. We had a website, we would set up tables at events, we would do a holiday party. I think we did some charity stuff. Like we did a little bit of everything. It was awesome. Yeah. Got plenty of business out of it. Yep. Got plenty of great relationships out of it. Now, that group was was built on the philosophy, which again would kind of be uh along the lines of this that we only want like one person in the group per profession. There's some networking groups that are like, we only want one realtor, yeah, one insurance person, yeah, no, I do one roofer. So that's one way to do it. So I don't want to like totally just go analogy on the networking group because that's how we ran it. But it'd be like if you go to like a real estate networking event and there's a hundred realtors there. A symposium? Yeah, and you're like, why would I do that? Why would I go? They're all my competition. So what am I spending my time for to meet my competition? To meet my competition, that's just out there trying to eat my lunch, let's say. Yeah, which is a very real thought. That's an honest thought. And what I would say is that try not to think about all of your networking as you need to go out and get leads. Some of it is now again. If I'm the one realtor in the small networking group and anyone and everyone is only looking at me for real estate, that is, you know, you do have a little bit of a lead gen philosophy there because you're like, look, if they need someone, they they kind of have to mention my name.

Yeah.

Just like I'm gonna mention their name.

Yeah.

But if you go to the big real estate networking event, you're not going there with that philosophy. You're not going there with lead gen only in mind. You're going there to meet people, shake hands, build relationships, learn, get a marketing tip, like, you know, uh learn about a new area. Maybe there's an agent there who does investment or development. You're like, I'm curious about that. Maybe I can ask that person some questions and glean something, glean something from them that I'm interested in. Plus, the wonderful thing about real estate is we work with each other all the time. 90% of the time you're doing a transaction, you're doing it with an agent on the other side. And also, they probably don't even work for your brokerage, which is fine. Like, this is part of our business. So, like, what I would say is if you're going to that all realtor networking event and you're walking in there, is like, well, why would I go here? Because I'm not gonna get any leads out of it. That's the wrong mindset to have. You're going there for different reasons, yeah. So let's let's what do you want to say to that?

Yeah, uh, so it's um it's kind of the personality type is like I'm the smartest person in the room. So so so two personality types. I'm the smartest guy around when it comes to real estate. Or girl. Guy or Gail. Guy or Gail. Um so so I don't need to go there because I know it all, and I don't need to make relationships because I know it all. Or you have the other opposite in the spectrum where it's like I want to go because I'm not the smartest, because I want to be in a room with people that have been doing it longer, that are more successful than I am, and and you're really trying to extract information from them. You're trying to like level up, and that's always been my approach has been I do want to be in the room, you know, if with an agency owner who's the the$50 million agency owner. Right. Like I want to talk to him because I want to know he might be my competition. I don't know. Um, but I want to be in the room. If I get a chance to speak to someone like that who's been successful and done it over a period of time, I do want to speak to that person because there's always something that you can take from and learn from.

I got a great example here, and I agree with all that. This is I'm gonna go back to the lead gen only philosophy because that's what we're that's what we're we're talking about that mindset where someone's like, it's not worth my time. I'm not gonna go there and meet these people if I'm not gonna get anything out of it. Right. So if you go to that all-person real estate event, this happens to me all the time. I spent half my life in the suburbs and I spent half my life in the city of Philadelphia. And where do you spend the other half? There's only two halves. Yeah. So being that I grew up in the burbs, I lived in the city for over 20 years. Now I'm back in the burbs last five years. I constantly get people in my suburban area, agents who will say, Tim, I know you know Philly, which is true. That's where I built my business. Now, again, I do business in the suburbs, like I just did a couple suburban deals. But people will think of me now as like, oh, Tim's kind of like a go-to Philly guy because he spent so much time in the city, he grew a brokerage in the city, he invests and develops in the city. So why wouldn't I talk to Tim if I have someone in Philly? Because guess what? If you're a real estate agent, you're also thinking if I have someone that comes to me and says I want to buy in Philly, I'm gonna give it to Tim because if Tim executes and he's good at what he does, he's gonna pay me a referral fee. Yeah. So that's kind of like another way to look at it. But to go off the example of we were talking about NWPN, was Lower Gwended like that too? Were they one person per profession, or was it just anyone? No, it was more like a chamber of commerce? Yeah. All right, so let's do the the comparison of NWPN, only one person per profession in this group. We did that, we got lots of business out of it, lots of relationships. Yeah. Now let's talk about, which we haven't talked about that much on the show, surprisingly, the bricks and risk events that we have. We have bricks and risk events, yeah, usually around every six months.

Yeah.

Um, we usually get 20 to 30 people at each event. Most of the people who come to our events are either people who have been on the show, listened to or watched the show, or just people like in your network, like let's say someone in like the home remediation business or someone in the mortgage business, like someone who's like ancillary to our industries, yeah, who knows us, who wants to go to the event, meet some more people. So let's do the comparison between that event. Yeah. Yeah, the comparison between the two. So NWPN, very defined, a little bit more lead gen because only one of each person. Yep. But the uh bricks and risk events are the complete opposite. Like when we have an event for bricks and risk, there are many realtors there. Yes. So I'm gonna use that. I I'm a realtor. Mortgage people. There's mortgage, there's multiple mortgage people, there's multiple title people, there's a couple insurance people. Yep. You know, there's only one home inspector. Yes. Reed Stever. Reed Stever. Shout out to Reader from Glenside, Pennsylvania. Well, we would like to meet more, but no, anyway, just read. So going on that example, so it's kind of like, well, Tim and Sean, why are you having these events for brick? It's contrary. It's contrary. Like, why would you do that? Why are you doing that? And honestly, here is the main reason. And a lot of people are gonna think we're kind of crazy. Yeah. Because Sean and I are natural, genuine connectors. I get so much joy out of just someone coming to me and say, Tim, do you know anyone who does roofs? Tim, do you know anyone who does fencing? Tim, do you know anyone who does mortgages, insurance, plumbing, electrician, painter? Do you know where I can buy garden manure? You got guy? Yes. And I love helping people get connected with good, trusted people that I know that I know want to help them. Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host. But don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth, so if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now, back to the show. Talk about you being like that as well, like you having a connection mindset.

It's very simple. And and we've talked about this before. Uh, we'll continue to talk about it. Yeah. It's the abundance mindset.

Abundance.

We go into a room thinking no one is our competition. Exactly. We are our own competition. Yep. So so inviting people in that are in our space or in our industry doesn't really have any impact on our business. No. So I think that um that's what people might find a little crazy um because it does run contrary, and I am a contrarian by nature.

Yes, you are. Um actually look fairly normal today in the South.

Fairly normal. Yeah. Yeah.

Go fly guys.

Um, very into uh the Flyers uh this run. Um but it's very different, and I can understand why people would say, Why would you want two or three or four real estate people at an event? You know, I I would understand why they would say it, but if you understand you and I's perspective and and what our aim is and what our goal is for the show and our community, it's it's our goals are very different than than most. And what re what we want is to deliver for our uh people that come into our events is to learn, network, grow their network, find people that they can use as resources. Yeah, we we really do want to become the connectors for people within our network. So I would say that that is our approach. That's why we do these events, that's why we have this show. Um, it's all built around uh helping others grow and being connectors professionally within our industry.

Let's go back to the three reasons we started the podcast. I have said this so many times until I'm blue in the face. Sean and I want to get more business for our immediate businesses. He runs an insurance brokerage, I'm in real estate. So if we can get more business through the podcast, awesome. We want to build more relationships. We want to meet more people that we don't know through the podcast, but we also want to strengthen the relationships of people we do know through the podcast. And then third is helping give back. Like us even starting the show, and we talk about this on our intro video on the YouTube page, is you and I, the one of the main reasons we started the show, we were just so into podcasts, into the medium. You were listening and watching to so many, so was I. We didn't even know it until we started talking about it. We're really like, oh man, I listened to this one, or I watched that one, or this guy or girl's really good. This is what I get out of it. So, like, helping and giving back is a big reason why we continue to do the podcast, because if someone just watches like a 30 or 40-minute episode or a 30 or 40 minute interview, they're probably going to get one or two or 10 things out of that episode. They're like, man, that was really good. That either changed my thinking or it gave me a marketing tip or I think about my business differently, or like now I know how to hire that person because no one's ever said that to me before. And the bricks and wrist networking events just came organically. We were just like, so many people were reaching out, like, thank you so much for the people who have reached out, and just said, I love the show. I love it. And we're kind of like, lots of people have said that, they're all in business. Why don't we just do a happy hour? Let's just invite 50 people to a happy hour. If 10 show up, awesome. We'll buy them drinks, we'll get some apps, but we're just there to like hang out and yo, yo, Bill, I want you to meet Sally because Sally does this and you do that. Plus, Bill and Sally are good people. They wouldn't be at the happy hour if they weren't good people or they weren't like like-minded to you and I with an abundance mindset. So therefore, we want as many people as possible to come to our events to meet more people, to help their business, help them in their lives. Like just meeting the right person can change your life. It can.

Can you talk about an example maybe recently that you've almost helped a competitor or you've worked with a competitor, and I say that, you know, with quotes, but um just an example where it would kind of fly in the face of what you should be doing and and maybe how that worked out a little bit.

I got two really good examples. One would be uh real estate agents, whether you're at real or not, most people are not, will come to me and say, Hey Tim, do you know, do you know a painter? And then I'll almost, again, taking the time, yeah. I'll be like, what kind of painter do you need? Do you need someone to paint a huge space or do you need someone to paint like a room and a half in your house? Like what kind of do you want the person you don't care about costs, you want the lowest cost provider? Yeah. So someone, an agent will call me, Tim, do you know a painter? I will take the time, I will ask questions, I will give him or her either one or multiple painting contacts. They're my competitor. So if I was like just thinking scarcity, I'd be like, well, I don't want them to form too good of a relationship with my painter. What if they start pulling my painter away for the people in my network that need him or her? Or what if they what if the painter likes them more than they like me? And then if the painter knows someone wants to buy or sell real estate, they drop their name and they don't drop my name. Yeah. Like, so that's that's one way of looking at it, but that's one scenario.

Yeah.

The second scenario would be, and this is one people probably think I'm crazy. Another agent will come to me with a listing, maybe in an area they're unfamiliar with, but they know I'm familiar. They're like, Tim, I'm about to list this property. I pulled the comps, and this person's experience. This happens to me. Yeah, yeah. This has happened to me many, many times. They know what they're doing. They have a successful business, they get a new listing, they pull their comps, they're doing their listing presentation, they got it all ready to go, but they feel uneasy. They're just like, kind of want a second opinion on this. Am I right? Am I close? Yeah, I'm going to make zero dollars off of this. And they come to me and say, Tim.

Well, it would benefit you to not help them because if the thing goes haywire, then maybe Oh, they crapped on them.

So that means the next lead's coming to me. Yep. So that person will come to me and say, Tim, can I just get your eyes on this property real quick? What do you think of my recommendation of the listing price? One, I think that's super flattering and humbling because someone respects my expertise in my opinion. Plus, they know how I am. They know I'm just gonna be honest and straight up with them and just be like, okay, cool. Well, yeah. Oh, that how well do you know that neighborhood? Let's say it's a city deal because this comes to me a lot. Yeah. I know nothing about the neighborhood, but these are my good friends. They live in the neighborhood, they want to work with me, they trust me. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Okay, you know, let Bill, what comps did you pull up? South 9th Street. What do you know about South Ninth Street? Then they're put then they're showing me the comps, and I'm like chopping them up a little bit. No, not that one. That's like freaking 400 square feet bigger. They're like 400 square feet. I'm like, yeah, it's like an ocean of difference in the city, yeah, especially in South Philly. So it's like why they are in this. Yeah, oh, it's a 13-footer versus a 16-footer. It's like that's a huge difference. That's a difference between a shack and a mansion. Yeah. So, like, like things like that, and I'll just say, Tim, can I get your eyes on this and get your opinion? And I will always take the time. Now, if it's gonna take me two hours and I'm in the middle of something, I'm gonna have to call them back. Like, I would hope. And even two hours is probably a stretch. I probably wouldn't spend two hours on this. Yeah. But it's not the point. The point is if someone asks me that, they know I will kind of either take the time right then if I'm not busy, or take the time at a future date or time to help them. Because I just want to see them help their friend. It's quite honest. I just want to see them do, I want to see them do it right. I want to see them succeed. I want to see real estate get done right. I want to see customer service get done right. Because that's more the abundance mindset. Like if we're all doing good things, we're all helping good people, and we're helping people get, I've always said, get it done with as little money as possible and with as little pain as possible, especially when selling, that's what I want to see happen. Yeah. Because that's a that's a win-win, could be a triple win, especially even for the buyer. Buyer just gets there first, gets a good deal, pays what they want, everyone's happy.

I'm a big karma guy. Karma. You know, and and you have to almost have that approach if you're going to act like this or you conduct your business like this. You you have to have this thought that by doing right, it's going to pay a dividend at some point down the road.

Yep.

Right? And I've always held that belief in that if you're doing right, you know, it's not going to be that immediate, Tim, I I did this for you. Now, now what are you gonna give me? It's not tit for tat, it's not instant gratification, it's not that reciprocal um relationship. I just have always held that belief in that you do right, you do good. You do right, you do good. You do you do right, you do good. And in the end, I don't know when that is, but at some point down the road, it's going to come back to you. Yeah. And you can't really put your finger on it. You can't measure it. There's no way to to to qualify it, to say, did I do this and and did I get this? It's not there. Yeah. Um, but that's just that's just how I operate.

I'm gonna give another another perspective to the uh, let's call it the karma reciprocity uh philosophy. And this is like some people say this, I've said this before. People will say, like, well, selfishly, I want to help him or her because I think if they had a development opportunity, they would think of me because I'm a developer and I flip homes or I invest in buildings and things. And do you know what? That happens, that goes through my mind every day. That I do believe in reciprocity. It doesn't mean I'm expecting it. Yeah, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna be upset if it doesn't happen in six months or six years or ever. That's not what it means. Yeah, but you but Bob Berg put it so well. He said, if you're gonna be open to giving, you also have to be open to receiving. So you don't want to be giving, giving, giving and be a doormat and say everyone's gonna come for me and just put drain out all of my value or my resources or my connections or my knowledge, and I'll just be like, have a good day. Like that doesn't make any sense. If you're gonna be a doormat, that's not we're telling you to.

Yeah, but it is also a reflection of your network. It's also a reflection of the people that you're working with, it's also a reflection of the people that you're recommending and referring. This is this is all kind of intertwined because if you you choose the people that you network with, do you choose the people that you are referring out, the painter, the plumber, the electrician? So if you choose to work with good people, those people are gonna be inclined to return the favor. Want to work with you. On the other side. So so that is an important component in this. That choose wisely, choose the people that you want to do business with, that are going to do right by your clients and and see value in what you bring to the table so that they can return that favor at some point when they have an opportunity to. I totally agree.

All right, so let's go over our actionable steps. Yeah, what can people do? We're getting better at this. I'll go first. So here's my actionable step to anyone listening who is trying to like get better at either this mindset or just like what we're talking about. You know, the the networking group we used to have, the bricks and risk events. Here's what I'll say A, B, N, always be networking. Now, there are some people that will say, I'm not a natural networker. I don't like going into a room with 10 people, 50 people, 500 people. I don't like that. I feel uncomfortable. I'm a little bit more introverted. I'm a little less social. It's fine. So I don't want to do it. But do you know what you do? You do one-on-one networking. The people, if you're a little bit more introverted and less social, you probably have like a handful, probably less than 10 really amazing relationships in your life because you've hand-selected them and have spent a lot of time and effort to like cultivate that friendship or that business relationship or a family member, whoever it is, like you have these people that you just have mutual respect for. You have a great relationship. Network with them. Like, if you're not the person who walks into a room and sees all these people and just naturally says, Oh, I want to go shake some hands and maybe pass out some cards and like I have the gift of gab, I want to shoot the shit, like whatever it is, then find the people that are either aligned with you in your industry or even just good people in your life, and just try and set up a lunch meeting, a coffee meeting, beers, seltzers, red wine, whatever you're looking, especially if it's at a bar. If you pick McNally's, shout out to McNally's, see if they got a red blend. Don't, don't, don't ask for the house lager because they're gonna look at you like you have two heads. Ask for red wine.

So we're gonna get hate email now. Like I went to McNally's and ordered a red wine and they threw me out. Thanks, Tim. They refused to serve me a schmitter. All right. So Doug, you can have a cob salad, sir.

Here is the uh Chardonnay and uh cob salad. Hold the egg for Tim. Uh so I I said always be networking. What's an actionable step for you?

Coffee is for networkers, as they say, as Alec Baldwin says.

Um for networkers or for closers? Networkers.

Um here's the here's what I would say. Always be networking. So you say like find your close people to do that. Great, do that. Uh, how about what do you love doing? You love running, you love gardening, you love sports, you love going to flyers games. Yeah. Whatever. Find those groups and and get active within those things that you enjoy. Because I I think that you don't like going to the networking events because they're networking events. You don't like to go there because you don't like to be the guy that says, I'm the plumber, right? But if you're in a group where you can just be yourself and it's casual, it's comfortable, you're doing what you like and enjoy. Chances are there's not another plumber in this, you know, running group of 10 or 15 people, then you become the guy within the you know, social club, yeah, that is, oh yeah, uh Jim, aren't you the don't you do plumbing? Do you do it on the side? Do you do how in residential? Oh, yeah, you know what I mean? So, so I would say pick some times to like get involved in different groups that aren't professional by you know by you know nature, but you can then become the go-to within that group because it's a little bit easier, it's a little bit more familiar. Yeah, and you and and do it that way. It's awesome advice. All right, go ahead and shut this one down, folks. Get us on the email, tell us that you're flyer up as well. Bricks and risk at gmail.com, Facebook, Instagram, find us on LinkedIn and YouTube. Be sure to subscribe there, leave us a note. Apple Podcasts, leave us a review if you'd like. That's very helpful for the show. Did you figure out how to upload videos to Apple Podcasts yet? No, but I did speak to them. And did you? Yeah. They are not so Spotify allows a direct upload. Apple doesn't. So they gotta feed it off of like our back end. I think what I've come to the realization is that it's a money thing. Spotify against the world. No, it's a money thing.

I love Spotify, by the way.

So so when you upload, that means that Spotify is hosting on their site, which means you need memory, which you need bandwidth, you need money to service and and house that information. Yep. Apple's gonna start by doing it like, no, you're gonna feed it to us. Right. So then you have to go to somewhere else to have them distribute it to them, so you're not technically hosting it on their site. I think that's what this comes down to. Okay. Prediction number 457. Munstradamus. Apple will fold on this because they're worth$800 bazillion dollars. Because you love them. Money doesn't matter, and they don't want to they don't want to lose out and people go directly to Spotify because it's competition and they're gonna want to be the go-to spot for video podcasts. So I think eventually they will allow it, but the first entry in is just uh off an off a feed.

Okay. I'll let I'll let you finish closing out. Sorry to interrupt there.

No, I'm finished.

Okay, awesome. Well, and again, real quick, you want a sticker, DM, email, comment, whatever you want, I'll find your address. It's gonna be at your door in probably two to three days. And then also, if you want We actually did have someone reach out recently.

They uh put a request in.

They did, thank you.

Jiminy Quick.

If you ever want to come to one of our Bricks and Risk networking events, same deal. Email, DM, comment. Love to have you. That's all we have for this one, folks. Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you next week. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.