Episode #47: The Pros & Cons of Partnerships

[00:00:00] Here's my quote. This is a Sean P original. Trusting nobody is easier than trying to pick who to trust.

[00:00:11] You made that up?

[00:00:12] Yeah.

[00:00:13] That's pretty damn good.

[00:00:14] It's pretty good, right?

[00:00:14] Hey, Dil, can we quote that and put it on the bottom with a dash that says Sean P?

[00:00:19] Get like one of those memes with me thinking with bubbles coming out of my head.

[00:00:22] That would be awesome.

[00:00:29] Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance, and building your business.

[00:00:35] Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from

[00:00:41] our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

[00:00:51] Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk.

[00:00:56] I'm Timothy Michael Garrity I.

[00:01:01] And I'm Sean Mooney.

[00:01:03] Who the hell are you?

[00:01:04] Sean P.

[00:01:05] Oh, yeah, Sean P. That's right. Awesome.

[00:01:07] All right, Sean P. Before we get started today, we're going to read another listener review.

[00:01:15] Ooh.

[00:01:16] And for those who are watching and listening, the best place you can leave a written review so that

[00:01:23] we can read it on the show is really Apple Podcasts. So I'm going to go ahead and read it.

[00:01:26] So this one comes from Strauss Mortgage. So great podcast for any entrepreneur.

[00:01:33] It's titled.

[00:01:35] So it says,

[00:01:37] Bricks and Risk is a must listen for anyone looking to dive deep into the nuances of business creation

[00:01:43] and growth. The hosts have a knack for navigating complex topics with ease, presenting them in a

[00:01:49] relatable and digestible format. Each episode brims with value and expert guests dissect their own

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[00:02:02] The content is curated to inspire, educate and provoke thought, making an essential addition to

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[00:02:13] insightful podcast is well deserved. It's not just a show, but a growing community where shared

[00:02:19] experiences paved the way for collective success. Damn, bro. What a review. Thank you, Strauss Mortgage.

[00:02:27] Listen, listen, are you ready? Are we up? We sitting high now? No, we listen. If you need a mortgage,

[00:02:36] call Strauss. Yeah, that's right. I'm putting, I don't know who Strauss Mortgage is, but we're going to

[00:02:41] find you. I'm going to find you Strauss. We're going to get you some business and the check is in the mail

[00:02:47] for your review. I think I know who it is, but I'm not going to reveal any of my secrets on the show.

[00:02:51] I'm going to go leave it a mystery. I'm going to let you figure it out. And then if you need a clue,

[00:02:56] let me know. I'll give you a couple of breadcrumbs. I am Strauss. I'm coming for you. Nice. I'm going

[00:03:02] to find you. Love it. All right. What are we talking about today? Today we're talking about partnerships,

[00:03:09] partnerships, business versus running a non-partnerships. Yeah. Well, this is great.

[00:03:16] So partnerships in general are, it's a very broad topic in business. You know, someone could talk

[00:03:22] about it. It's like, Hey, I get a partnership with my significant other and they help my business

[00:03:27] or someone could say, Hey, I went into business with someone else, someone I didn't know, and they

[00:03:32] wanted to do the same thing or, or someone kicked up a lot of money for the partnership. And that's why

[00:03:38] we got into business together. So why don't we start with you on this one? Because with Mooney

[00:03:44] Insurance Brokers, you started out solo. You were, you were a team of one day one. Now you have a few

[00:03:50] people on your team. I would say, go back to that time. Why was doing it solo the way, the direction

[00:03:59] you went when you started? Yeah. So at the time it really wasn't, I would say it wasn't a decision to

[00:04:06] be made. Um, so when I was, uh, making the decision to start the agency, it wasn't, uh, even a thought

[00:04:15] at that time to choose. Like it wasn't even an option. Yeah. Um, there was no other party that I

[00:04:25] could find or go to. Uh, I did have many, many conversations with different agency owners, um,

[00:04:33] about, you know, starting the agency and how to get that formulated, how to get it, you know,

[00:04:39] off the ground. Um, but what I will say is that it just wasn't an opportunity for me to

[00:04:47] find that other person, um, to, to go and, you know, do it with.

[00:04:52] How about, all right, so let's fast forward to now. That's the way you started. That's the way you are

[00:04:58] right now, but you got a couple of people working with you. Yeah. Where's your mindset at today?

[00:05:03] Would you be open to a partnership today? Absolutely. Um, not even, uh, today, but like looking, uh,

[00:05:12] back at the way that I did start it, I would have knowing what I know now, I would have definitely

[00:05:20] had put that on the table. Yep. I would have almost gone out and maybe

[00:05:24] like purposefully found some people who may have want to been, been a partner. Yep. Yeah. I think, um,

[00:05:32] I think in doing that, I think that would have been a completely viable option. Yeah. Um, I think

[00:05:40] it's probably looking back would have been my preference at the time. Yeah. Um, and so I

[00:05:47] definitely not to say that I would have definitely gone down the road of making the decision to

[00:05:53] partner with someone because ultimately I think you really need to find the person that you gel with.

[00:06:00] Like you have to be a hundred percent on the same page. Yep. And I think it's rare to find someone

[00:06:07] that is going to commit and give the energy that's needed. Yep. To do it. Um, but I still would have

[00:06:17] liked to, um, have those conversations about, you know, let's call it like interviewing, uh,

[00:06:25] people to partner with. Yeah. Because I think, and we can get into, you know, a variety of reasons

[00:06:30] of why I think that that would have been, um, the way I would have gone about it. It's so funny, dude,

[00:06:35] like how you're saying it, like saying, here's where I started, you know, didn't have the option,

[00:06:40] or at least you weren't focused on that option, which is why you went a little bit more solo.

[00:06:46] And then now today, like looking back and you're like, you know what, maybe I should have considered

[00:06:52] that like for these reasons, like everyone's got, there's reasons to do it and reasons not to do it.

[00:06:58] Yeah. Um, I just think that, uh, even now, even to this day, like if I were to find someone that was,

[00:07:07] and it's hard because at this point in someone's career, you know, I, I, I guess that, um, you would

[00:07:15] really need to find someone that's, I mean, you know, like it's, there's so much you have to give up

[00:07:22] in order to, um, operate a business. And at the time, that's the other thing too, is like

[00:07:33] what I was willing to give up at the time. It's like, who else would have been willing to give up

[00:07:42] a W2, put in some money, put in a sweat equity, uh, work countless hours. And initially, you know,

[00:07:54] you just don't have the money, right. To take like a high, uh, paycheck. So I don't know. It,

[00:08:03] it probably wouldn't have worked at the time to find that right person. Yeah. Um, but I still think

[00:08:09] it's a good exercise to kind of go through it and kind of see what's out there because, you know,

[00:08:14] maybe you do, maybe you find that person that's like just on that same wavelength as to like,

[00:08:20] yeah, that's an unbelievable idea. Let's go do it. It was funny. So like, it reminds me of the Zach

[00:08:26] Torres episode. What's up, Zach? Zach. Where one of his quotes was learn to sacrifice. Yeah. So he's

[00:08:33] been through that and you've been through that. I've been through that. And that really is probably

[00:08:39] one of the most foundational things about starting any business partners or no partners is you have

[00:08:45] to realize there, there is a sack, a sacrificial part to it in order to get it going. Cause if you just

[00:08:52] think nothing in your life changes and you're going to start a business, unfortunately the amount of time,

[00:08:58] effort and money, sometimes not, but time and effort for sure to get a business off the ground

[00:09:05] and get it moving. It's like, there's nothing, there's no other choice but to sacrifice. Yeah.

[00:09:11] Which is interesting. And it's just, I mean, I've had, you know, I've talked to people in all kinds of

[00:09:15] different industries and you know, people for a vast majority of people, there's such an unwillingness

[00:09:22] to make less money. Yeah. Because they, they view it as like a step back. Right. And it's like,

[00:09:31] no, every, every step in my life has to be more, has to be more, has to be more. Yeah. And to go in

[00:09:39] reverse for some people, it just doesn't, it doesn't fit like how they view life and business.

[00:09:48] Yeah. No, the high majority of people can't do what we have done just simply for that fact. Yeah.

[00:09:54] Because you, that is a requirement in order to do it. We were both making way more money. Yeah.

[00:10:00] Before we started businesses. Yeah. So like, that's, that's a fact. Yeah. Like,

[00:10:06] and it took years to even get back to that point of saying, all right, finally making the same money

[00:10:14] I left the job for to get this business off the ground. So some, some people, it might take six

[00:10:22] months. Some people it takes six years. So there is no like equation, linear method, right or wrong way

[00:10:32] to say, this is how long it's going to take. It really just depends on what you're doing.

[00:10:35] Yeah. Um, so as far as like, so for myself, uh, for partnerships, I had the complete opposite

[00:10:43] approach. So when I got into real estate, again, I started solo, so I didn't want to join anyone's

[00:10:48] team. So I probably had more of your mindset when I first got in. Cause a lot of people were joining

[00:10:52] teams when I first got, Hey, I joined this team and I got an open house opportunity every weekend,

[00:10:57] or I joined this team and they give me three cold leads a week that I can run out with. And, and I,

[00:11:03] I get one out of every 10. And then therefore I'm closing a couple of deals a month because I'm on

[00:11:08] this team. I'm making X amount of dollars because I'm on this team. This is what I constantly heard,

[00:11:13] but I went the opposite way. I said, as much as I will do an open house, as much as I'm willing to

[00:11:20] call someone that I don't know, see if they have a real estate need that I can help with.

[00:11:24] It's not the method that I'm falling into. And most of what I saw with teams when I first got in

[00:11:31] was more like, here are all the leads we have. We need people under us to service those leads.

[00:11:39] And then this is our conversion rate. And that conversion rate turns into closed deals,

[00:11:44] which turns into volume, which turns into income, which is how you say we had a good year or bad year.

[00:11:49] So that's what I saw. And it's way different now. Teams are just, they're structured differently.

[00:11:55] You know, technology has really made it easier to be associated with someone because that's really

[00:12:01] all the team is. So when I started out solo, I just said, look, I want to build this off relationships.

[00:12:08] You know, again, kind of the crux of our podcast, what do we talk about a lot in our businesses or

[00:12:14] our lives and everything that we want to share with the audiences, relationships are the foundation

[00:12:21] of everything that we do. So when I got in, I just said, look, if the relationships are mine,

[00:12:26] they come from me. It's my job to either maintain, strengthen and grow new relationships. Like that's

[00:12:34] all going to come from me because I want the relationship with me because when they have a need,

[00:12:39] I service that client.

[00:12:40] And if there was an opportunity, if you found someone that's like, oh my God, this is,

[00:12:44] this is what I do too.

[00:12:46] Exactly.

[00:12:47] Would you have thought like, oh, maybe this is possibility?

[00:12:52] Yeah. I was probably about two years in when I decided to, like my first brokerage wasn't like

[00:12:56] a great fit just because I had a couple needs. I said like, hey, can I, can I get a little bit

[00:13:02] more on my split? And we're like, that's not how we do it here. And I'm like, okay, well, that's fine.

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:07] Or like, you know, is there something else you can help me with? Well, I don't really have a

[00:13:11] lot of bandwidth. I got some of my greatest foundational stuff from my first brokerage,

[00:13:15] Brown McKinney, which was really in blogging. Like that idea came from Rudy Brown, who was my

[00:13:19] first broker. But then when I joined US Spaces, I get to meet a lot more agents. Like they had like

[00:13:23] 20, 25 agents. And that's when Ryan, my brother, Ryan Garrity got in the business. And that's where I

[00:13:28] met Andrew Janos was at that brokerage. So when I got to that brokerage and I saw this guy

[00:13:33] growing this brokerage, I said, I think I'm going to go back and start my broker classes

[00:13:40] because if I do that, maybe I could do what this guy's doing. And that was Fred Glick. Again,

[00:13:46] great guy, taught me a ton. So then I started taking my classes. You know, some of the classes

[00:13:50] took three, four full days in a row. I'm paying money. I can't practice. You know, I'm like sitting

[00:13:58] in a classroom all day. And then after five years, when I got that broker's license,

[00:14:04] I had Ryan and I had Andrew to your point earlier that said, yeah, we would be interested in that.

[00:14:10] Like they, they were, their eyes were lighting up. Like my eyes were lighting up. So I did have

[00:14:16] two people. One was a relative like in at that spot, right? Just got that license that said,

[00:14:24] we want to do it too. And we also want to do it in that way. Let's grow it organically.

[00:14:31] And I think one of the biggest lessons I can take from that, that I can share with the audience is

[00:14:35] again, a tip is when we started Copper Hill real estate from scratch, we looked at as like, okay,

[00:14:42] we have to kick up 10,000 each for our first year to keep this business afloat. And if we do that,

[00:14:48] how much did we pay our last brokerage in a calendar year to work for them? And it was more

[00:14:55] than $10,000. So we look at, we do the same exact amount of business and we're relationship driven.

[00:15:00] So it should be the same or better. And we shell out that $10,000. Not only are we making more

[00:15:07] money, but we have our own brand. We have our own company. There's opportunities to scale and grow

[00:15:13] and be creative and do all sorts of different things. And that's exactly what happened. So

[00:15:18] it took me, you know, about my first five years to start completely solo, get my feet wet, work for

[00:15:25] two different brokerages. Cause you worked for two different insurance companies in your first 10

[00:15:28] years, like get two different perspectives, get the license and say, all right, I got two people

[00:15:34] right here that are ready, willing, and able to grow this thing with me. And that wasn't an option

[00:15:41] that you had. Yeah. So it sounds like it almost naturally it happened that I just happened to

[00:15:46] have those and you didn't at that moment we were ready to like jump out. Well, for me too, it was a

[00:15:50] timing thing. Like if, if I'm going to do this, I have to do this now. Yeah. So you kind of take

[00:15:58] what's given to you and make the most of it. And that's, you know, yeah, the way I looked at it.

[00:16:04] All right. So let's talk about, so we've talked about some of our experiences with partnerships,

[00:16:08] right? Let's, let's talk about the pros of a partnership. So we've got a couple of points

[00:16:14] here. What's a pro of having a partner to start and grow a business? I mean, the one, the one

[00:16:26] thing that I think of first is you can go faster, quicker, and, and just have more volume. You're at a,

[00:16:38] you're at a different velocity when you have multiple people in your organization.

[00:16:45] Yeah. So like speed.

[00:16:47] Yeah. Speed. You got, in my example, we had three people at the helm of starting this thing. So

[00:16:53] technically we could do three times the amount of work we could, we could go three times faster.

[00:16:59] But you had three networks to tap into. Everything is kind of exponentially driven. So from that

[00:17:07] standpoint, I mean, that, that to me is like the number one answer as to like why, or having a pro

[00:17:16] is, you know, with, with one person there's, there's just, you can only go as fast as that.

[00:17:26] There's only so many hours in the day.

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:28] And you got three kids.

[00:17:29] Yeah.

[00:17:29] Now you didn't have three kids when you started.

[00:17:31] Right.

[00:17:32] But still.

[00:17:33] No. So, so that's, you know, pro number one, faster, quicker, get going and speed at what

[00:17:41] you can go.

[00:17:42] All right. So one thing, so you were talking about like shared resources. Hey, we got three

[00:17:47] networks, you know, we got three different people, three different skill sets, possibly three

[00:17:51] different lanes. I think another pro is in the example I gave from Copper Hill is financial

[00:17:57] support. So again, if I wanted to do it myself year one and I'm like, Hey, like the bottom of the

[00:18:03] barrel annual expenses are 30 K to get it started, pay rent, you know, have the tech advertise,

[00:18:12] have insurance, you know, all these things you need, educate yourself, all these things you need

[00:18:18] to grow your business. I would have had to take 30 grand out of my bank account in that first year.

[00:18:24] And then I think honestly, if it were me and I was comparing it to what I was paying my last broker,

[00:18:28] it probably would have been more.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:30] But when you split it up three ways, that was one of the reasons that really got us going.

[00:18:34] It's like, Hey, it's like, you know, if we only pay 10 grand each, like maybe we were paying him

[00:18:38] like 20, 25 at the time, maybe 30. I can't remember.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:41] Um, so I think the financial piece is very important because it's, it's split. Now, again,

[00:18:50] that also plays into the profit. Yeah. So as much as you're not putting as much money out there,

[00:18:57] you're not going to make as much money when the profit rolls in.

[00:19:02] What are your thoughts on that? As far as like being solo? Cause I think you had to put up,

[00:19:07] I think an episode we talked about like 20, 25 grand or so probably in your first year.

[00:19:12] Yep. So I think going back to my other point where I was saying that if you can find the right person,

[00:19:18] you can tandem with another person that is on the same track that you're thinking and you can gel.

[00:19:27] My thinking with that is that you can grow, you can outgrow what you'd be losing. Does that make sense?

[00:19:39] It does make sense.

[00:19:40] So like if in the first year I write a million dollars of business, right? And I own a hundred

[00:19:46] percent of that. I think with two people, you could go further than 2 million.

[00:19:53] Gotcha. Yeah.

[00:19:54] You're saying it's not, it's not equal. It's not one each.

[00:19:58] Right.

[00:19:58] You can maybe go 2.5 or 3.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:01] If you had two working in that same period of time, just because that's the percentage of growth

[00:20:05] that it would have been doing. That's a really good point.

[00:20:07] Because everything is calculated for me in my head based on like, you know, a multiple, right?

[00:20:14] Yep.

[00:20:14] So like a million dollars of business, you're going to get X amount of referrals per month. You're

[00:20:20] going to write X amount of business. But when you have two people writing double that amount,

[00:20:25] everything kind of like rose at that additional multiple.

[00:20:30] The compound effect of two people working at once versus one person is just going to be that

[00:20:35] much greater.

[00:20:36] Yeah.

[00:20:36] I mean, compounding is a real thing.

[00:20:38] Yeah.

[00:20:39] No, that's a really good point.

[00:20:40] So I think you're going to outpace what you would be doing on your own if you take it that

[00:20:47] way.

[00:20:47] Here's another perspective from a pro of having a partner or partners is in decision making.

[00:20:55] Yeah.

[00:20:55] So I'll go back. I've had a few different partnerships. I've had a partnership for a real

[00:20:59] estate brokerage, partnership for a development team, partnership in a title company, partnership.

[00:21:05] I was in property management for a couple of years. So I've done a few different things.

[00:21:10] One thing I'll say about the pro of decision making is that, well, one of you have partners,

[00:21:18] I feel like you have to be open-minded. And I was very, very open-minded.

[00:21:22] Yeah. It forces you to be.

[00:21:23] I'm such a people person. It's just the way I'm wired. And I, I probably am too trusting

[00:21:28] at times. Like sometimes people like you're too nice. Like you're too trusting. Like you

[00:21:32] give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

[00:21:33] Do you want to hear my quote?

[00:21:34] Yeah.

[00:21:35] Here's my quote. This is a Sean P original.

[00:21:38] Okay.

[00:21:40] Trusting nobody is easier than trying to pick who to trust.

[00:21:47] You made that up?

[00:21:48] Yeah.

[00:21:49] That's pretty damn good.

[00:21:50] It's pretty good, right?

[00:21:50] Hey, Dil, can we, uh, can we quote that and put it on the bottom with like a dash that

[00:21:54] says Sean P.

[00:21:54] Get like all those memes with like me thinking with bubbles coming out of my head.

[00:21:58] That would be awesome.

[00:22:00] Um.

[00:22:02] Hey everyone. This is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host. But don't tell Sean.

[00:22:08] I hope you're enjoying this episode and I'll get right back to it in a moment.

[00:22:12] Our audience grows through word of mouth. So if you would please take a moment of your time

[00:22:17] and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread

[00:22:23] the BNR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time

[00:22:29] and trust. Now back to the show. So here's the thing, like when you're making decisions. So like,

[00:22:41] again, I'll go back to Copperhead Real Estate. Yeah.

[00:22:43] We started. Yep.

[00:22:45] Where we want our office to be because we needed an office for Pennsylvania State to have a brokerage.

[00:22:51] Right.

[00:22:51] It can be the tiniest office you've ever seen, which it was, or it can be this gargantuan,

[00:22:57] it can be 10,000 square feet if you wanted to. Now obviously we couldn't afford 10,000 square

[00:23:01] feet, nor did we even need it or want it, but we had a tiny, tiny little office.

[00:23:05] Beaver County. You could probably find.

[00:23:07] If we did go to Beaver County, we probably could have found maybe like an old warehouse for like

[00:23:11] a couple of bucks a month. Someone's like, I'm making zero on it now. I'll take your $5.

[00:23:17] Possibly.

[00:23:17] Nothing against Beaver County.

[00:23:18] We love Beaver County.

[00:23:19] Yeah. We love Beaver County. So when we were finding our office space, one thing that worked

[00:23:26] well for us was like, where do we do it and why? One of our biggest drivers is like, okay,

[00:23:30] well we have this budget. So if we have this budget in year one, the office rent can't

[00:23:35] be more than a thousand bucks, which to some people that are like, what, what did you find?

[00:23:40] Well, first of all, this was 2014. So things were cheaper. This was pre crazy inflation.

[00:23:46] And two, we got creative. We found a coworking space and that coworking space ended up being

[00:23:53] such a blessing. So not only did we find our first office space for 800 a month with utilities,

[00:23:59] because in a coworking space, that's, that pays for your electric, that pays for your water,

[00:24:04] that pays for your gas, that pays for your internet. We had a front desk, we had a conference room,

[00:24:08] we had coffee made every day. We had networking events we could go to. All of that was included

[00:24:13] at $800 a month. So we were just getting all these like fringe benefits as well as financial benefits

[00:24:20] for doing that. But we also looked at it like strategically because we're relationship driven

[00:24:26] guys and we were trying to grow our networks. We're like, there's 50 different companies in this

[00:24:32] coworking space. Most of them were startups. Cause at the time, coworking was like fairly new in

[00:24:37] Philadelphia as it was in most parts of the country. And you had all these like scrappy small

[00:24:42] businesses. Some of them were like tech, some were like music, art, nonprofit, other businesses,

[00:24:48] there were attorneys and you would like go to the, like their wine and cheese night and just go shake

[00:24:55] hands and pass out business cards or swap info. And then you're like, yo, are you going to be in

[00:25:00] tomorrow? Yeah. Why don't we meet up in the, in the lounge and we just grab a cup of coffee,

[00:25:04] which was already paid for and talk shop. So dude, did they have chartree boards there with

[00:25:12] charcuterie meat selections? They actually had charcuterie and that's where I learned about

[00:25:18] triple creme brie, which is some of the best cheese in the world. In my opinion, I learned at it.

[00:25:23] I learned about it there and I got a really funny story.

[00:25:25] We'll have to ask Dennis about how my brother Ryan got grossed out by triple creme, but we won't

[00:25:29] go on it on this episode, but it was pretty funny. Um, we could bring Dennis on the show. He's a

[00:25:34] cheese guy. We could, we definitely could. JP sales.

[00:25:42] So, so that like the decision making support to do something, there was no one that I knew of.

[00:25:49] I bet you we were the first, I bet you if I actually researched it to headquarter a residential

[00:25:56] real estate brokerage in the city of Philadelphia at a coworking space. Dylan, can you fact check?

[00:26:01] I want someone to fact check that for me because I bet you it's true. And if not,

[00:26:05] it's like a 90% chance it's true. I'm going to have Dennis fact check your cheese too.

[00:26:09] Cool. I appreciate it. Just Philadelphia. Yeah. See if you can find any residential real

[00:26:14] estate companies that were in coworking spaces, there's probably two for 2014, probably some guy

[00:26:20] somewhere. Could be. So that, but that brings me back to the decision making support. Like,

[00:26:26] because there were three of us were like, what are the pros of doing this? What are the cons of doing

[00:26:29] this? What's the perceived value? Like, is it innovative? People are going to be like, what are

[00:26:33] you nuts? And most people said we were nuts. And then there were some people we'd meet and they're

[00:26:38] like, that's really smart. I bet you it's a lot cheaper. We're like, it is. And we're like,

[00:26:42] and we're a paperless residential brokers are like, what? So what other avenues were you looking

[00:26:46] at though? Like what was on the table? So if you landed on the shared space, which worked out great

[00:26:51] and it fit everything that you were looking to do. Yep. Like what other alternatives were on the table

[00:26:57] that you were discussing at the time or where is there not? Because it's like, all right.

[00:27:00] There were. It'd be like, you know, the thing about like, if you're, if you're a Philadelphian,

[00:27:04] you're from this area or you've been to Philadelphia, you walk down Walnut Street,

[00:27:08] Center City, which is where we started. Yeah. And there's tiny little storefronts. You know,

[00:27:11] you might be able to get 500 square feet, maybe a thousand. Oh yeah. That wasn't, that wasn't that

[00:27:15] the U S spaces. Didn't they have a, yeah, they were, they were on, they were on a chestnut for a while.

[00:27:21] I think that's, they were in a shared space for a little bit. Yeah. So like that was your

[00:27:26] alternative going up in a big building at that point. Wasn't it to just have an office. There

[00:27:32] weren't any spaces that were small enough. Yeah. Like, let's say we want to get a commercial

[00:27:35] space in like a high rise downtown. Most of that was like the minimum was like, yeah, it was big.

[00:27:40] Yeah. But you can find these little spaces downtown that offered that. Plus you could

[00:27:45] go out to a neighborhood. You go out to a Manioc, Roxborough, like Pasadena Square. You

[00:27:50] can go to Fairmount, you can go to Fishtown, Northern Liberties, like any of these spots,

[00:27:54] like Queen Village, Graduate Hospital and find 500,000 square feet for maybe like two G's.

[00:28:00] And at the time we're like, well, that's not a terrible deal, but it's still almost triple

[00:28:06] what we're paying to be at a fantastic location in Center City with all of our utilities included,

[00:28:14] which is another factor and meet all these companies. So I think just having all that is

[00:28:21] literally like the benefits of it. We're like, there's not going to be a better option, but

[00:28:25] not everyone thought that way. Not everyone said like, I can grow my business through the

[00:28:30] co-working model. Yeah.

[00:28:31] So it was, it was new territory. Most people said we were crazy. There were a few that were

[00:28:35] like, that's really smart. That was cool.

[00:28:37] Mikey G might question how you said Paschionk.

[00:28:41] He would. Mike is, is Paschionk. You're from Philly. We, I say Paschionk because I also say

[00:28:47] water. I don't really say water anymore.

[00:28:49] You say what?

[00:28:50] I say water. I say water. I say, give me a glass of water.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:55] Yeah.

[00:28:55] My wife's from Colorado.

[00:28:56] We're not friends.

[00:28:57] She's helped me out a little bit. Decision-making.

[00:29:00] We're not friends.

[00:29:02] Pro side, I'd like to weigh in on. It's amazing. I can't imagine having three guys, gals on a

[00:29:12] team and a decision needs to be made. I mean, you can have a decision one, two, no, like,

[00:29:19] nope, we're not doing it. That's the, that's the final decision. Why that's so great is because

[00:29:24] when you are a solo operator.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:29] You have to make every single decision.

[00:29:31] By yourself.

[00:29:32] By yourself.

[00:29:33] And it takes a while. It can be a paralyzing.

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:38] Event.

[00:29:39] Paralysis by analysis.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] And so what about this? What about this? Because you're like, what do you think, Sean? I don't

[00:29:47] know, Sean. What do you think? That's a pretty good point, Sean.

[00:29:50] Literally.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:52] That's, I mean, seriously.

[00:29:53] So, so I'm envious of that situation because I'm kind of of the mindset is like, I don't

[00:30:00] really care. Like I'll weigh in on certain things and I'll like want to do this or want to

[00:30:05] do that. But at the end of the day, if it were a group, I would be like, okay, that's

[00:30:12] what we're doing. Okay. Let's go.

[00:30:13] Like, yeah. So having that is, is like a luxury to me in my mind because it's like, I,

[00:30:23] every, I can't tell you. It could be like a thousand decisions a day.

[00:30:29] Right.

[00:30:29] Like clients and carriers and what should I do?

[00:30:32] What's IT?

[00:30:33] Should I make good on that? Should I, should I not work with them anymore?

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:37] Should I make less money? Like, should I do this? Well, all right. So let's, let's do

[00:30:43] this as, as nice as that sounds. Let's get into some of the cons.

[00:30:47] Yeah, sure.

[00:30:47] Let's get into some of the moons.

[00:30:49] Yeah.

[00:30:50] The glass, the glass half empty.

[00:30:51] Let's call them the moons.

[00:30:53] This is my specialty.

[00:30:55] So.

[00:30:56] Con.

[00:30:57] Some cons. Here's a con that kind of feeds off of the decision-making pro we were just

[00:31:04] talking about is conflict.

[00:31:06] Yeah.

[00:31:06] This is a very real thing in partnerships. As, as agonizing as it can be to make a decision

[00:31:14] yourself, it's up to you and only you to say, this is the direction. Here's the fork in

[00:31:21] the road. I'm either going right or I'm going left. You don't have to, you don't have to

[00:31:25] ask someone else if we're going right or left. You're just going to pick one. Now you might

[00:31:30] not go the right way, or maybe you got better odds if you have someone else, but the conflict

[00:31:35] part of decision-making in a partnership, I will say can also be paralyzing to the point

[00:31:44] where I'll go back to the brokerage. When we had to make decisions on things,

[00:31:49] we had a rule that basically said, if we can't agree unanimously, then majority rules. So you

[00:31:58] had three partners. If there were two votes, that's the way you were going. I will say out of all the

[00:32:04] voting we did in almost 10 years, probably count on two hands, the amount of major decisions that

[00:32:11] actually required a vote of us physically raising our hands and saying this direction we're going.

[00:32:17] And was the one odd man out pissed off? Yes, they were. I was the odd man out sometimes,

[00:32:23] as was Ryan, as was Andrew. But the decisions were still being made. Not only that, so I think

[00:32:31] there's conflict from a decision-making standpoint. I think conflict can also come into play

[00:32:36] insofar as vision. Where do we want to go with this company? Because out of the four partnerships

[00:32:41] I've named, two of them didn't work out. The brokerage, that isn't an existing partnership

[00:32:47] anymore, and neither is the property management. Those partnerships didn't work out. The other two

[00:32:51] are great. Yeah.

[00:32:54] Most of why those decisions... No, I'm going to say not most. One of the reasons why those

[00:33:00] partnerships did not work out was also, where are we going with this thing? How fast? How are we

[00:33:06] getting there? And minds change all the time. Like I've said in a past episode, people get married.

[00:33:14] People buy a bigger house. People get a nicer car. People have children. People have pets. People want

[00:33:19] to go on vacation more. All these things that change in your personal life are also going to change your

[00:33:26] perspective on the vision. Because a lot of the vision comes down to like, how long is this going

[00:33:31] to take and how much money are we going to make? Yeah. Because like we talked about in the beginning,

[00:33:34] we both took steps back when we started the business and then got to a point where we're making more.

[00:33:38] But then what do you do? You're almost like, should we put some of that money back in the business

[00:33:41] so I can make even more than that? So it's constant like step back to go step forward.

[00:33:46] So what are your thoughts on the conflict part, knowing that you've always been a team of one

[00:33:52] since you've been doing this as far as like the major decisions? Yeah. So there, I mean,

[00:33:57] I said it before is like, there's value in having, you know, multiple people weigh in. Um,

[00:34:04] I can't imagine the scenario where it's a partnership of two, right? That's hard.

[00:34:09] Your gears would be grinding so much. Three was good because there was always, it was easy.

[00:34:15] Someone was always leaning one way or the other. Right. So, um, I can imagine that if it's a

[00:34:20] partnership of two, you're, you're not always going to see things the same way.

[00:34:25] Right. So there's, there's always going to be a potential for conflict there. Um, and yes,

[00:34:31] decision-making for one, uh, does have a benefit of you make the decision, you live with a decision,

[00:34:38] and sometimes you even realize that it is the wrong decision when it's made, but you're forced to like

[00:34:46] live in it. Yeah. And there's really no, you know, you can wallow in it. Right. But like,

[00:34:56] if you decide that decisions are made and moving forward, then that's the practice that you have.

[00:35:02] And that's how you operate the business. And, and it's, you know, that's, that was yesterday.

[00:35:07] Give me your trust quote again. How'd that go?

[00:35:08] So in life, it's easier to trust nobody than to pick and choose who to trust.

[00:35:17] Dude, that's, that's really good. What you just said leads me to a quote that I've always said,

[00:35:23] I know this is not mine, or maybe I've worded it this way, but I always say you have to fail in

[00:35:28] order to succeed. And I keep it very blunt like that because even when you're a solo, uh, business

[00:35:35] owner, you don't have any partners to make decisions with when you make those decisions,

[00:35:40] like you said, that sometimes they don't work out, that is failing. And when you fail, the next time

[00:35:48] you have to make a decision of a similar nature, let's say, let's say it was a marketing decision.

[00:35:54] I'll try this and it didn't work. Then you're that much smarter to say, all right, well, here are the

[00:36:00] reasons why that didn't work. Maybe it was money. Maybe it was time. Maybe it was effort.

[00:36:05] Maybe it was just like, and how quality it was versus quantity. Like there's many reasons why

[00:36:11] marketing doesn't work, but failing is still allowing you to succeed. And maybe the process

[00:36:18] takes a little bit longer because you're making all these decisions. And then therefore you're the

[00:36:23] one who has to realize when they're not working. And you don't have two other people or one other

[00:36:28] person banging on our door, like, yo, we can't do this anymore because we're not getting anywhere.

[00:36:32] It's costing too much money. What have we, what have we brought in customer acquisition costs? We

[00:36:37] were, we were BSing about before, like what's the customer acquisition costs and why are we doing this?

[00:36:45] It's like, you have to do that.

[00:36:48] Yeah. And I think a lot of times too, and I'll, I say it often that sometimes you learn the most from,

[00:36:54] from your errors, from your mistakes. Totally, man.

[00:36:58] So I think that sometimes even those are blessings in disguise.

[00:37:02] Yeah.

[00:37:03] Because you're not going to, you're probably hopefully not going to do it again,

[00:37:08] or you get to think about, you get to critically think, oh, why did I, why did this happen?

[00:37:13] How did this happen?

[00:37:14] Yep.

[00:37:15] And then you're building the road forward with that in mind to, you know, avoid that in the future.

[00:37:22] Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes actually the failures are opportunities because when something's not

[00:37:28] working out, you could say, all right, well, if this didn't work out, like for me,

[00:37:33] when the brokerage partnership ended, okay, well, what's my next opportunity? What am I going to do?

[00:37:39] And it really ended up being a blessing because I went from solo agent to two partners to growing a

[00:37:46] pretty, pretty good size independent brokerage by most people's standards,

[00:37:50] not only in the amount of time that we did, but also just in general to now going back

[00:37:56] to being the sole decision maker and then having like a group of people that still work with me,

[00:38:02] that are still following me. I'm still leading them. I don't need to go to them for,

[00:38:05] for decisions. Do I get ideas? Do we communicate? Do we collaborate? A hundred percent.

[00:38:10] Yeah.

[00:38:10] But the decision maker is me. So I've gone back. I went full,

[00:38:14] I went full circle back to being solo. And I will say like, it actually brings me to another

[00:38:22] con is a con of a partnership is shared profits. Because again, as you're growing something,

[00:38:34] most of the time people like the word growth. So if you start, we started a team of three at the

[00:38:41] brokerage and grew it to, you know, 10 million in volume, let's say in like our first year,

[00:38:45] we took it all the way up to almost a hundred million in less than 10 years that we did one

[00:38:50] year. Like you're almost like, well, how do we get to 200 or how do we get to 500 or how do we get to

[00:38:56] a billion? Like, you know, these aren't the things that we discussed, but when you have shared profits

[00:39:02] and shared decisions, sometimes people are like, I don't want to bring that money home. I want to

[00:39:07] throw it back into the business. I want to pour gasoline on the fire. I want it to

[00:39:12] print more money because of the money I'm investing in it. Whereas sometimes, and I think

[00:39:18] going full circle with this whole thing, one thing I've enjoyed about going back to being the

[00:39:24] sole decision maker is you got to pay yourself first. It's almost like the philosophy that a

[00:39:28] lot of people say with health, like you got to take care of yourself first. If you're going to

[00:39:32] take care of your family, you can't be in poor health and then expect you to be in a right state

[00:39:37] of mind or physically or mentally to then take care of others, whether it's a spouse and children or

[00:39:42] pets or whatever, or grandparents or parents or cousins. Like you have to take care of yourself

[00:39:48] first to a point, and then you'll have the strength or the resources to help others.

[00:39:57] And going back to being the sole decision maker for me has been pretty nice because now I have,

[00:40:03] I have more time to think. I have more resources. I have more direction. Like I'm doing my 2025

[00:40:10] annual planning right now for next year for the Tim Garrity team. And I'm like, okay, it doesn't look

[00:40:16] like here are like four or five streams of income for next year that I want to focus on. And I wouldn't

[00:40:23] be focusing on those if I was still in a partnership, which is interesting. So what are your thoughts on

[00:40:30] that? Yeah. You've been, Hey, you're not sharing your profit. I mean, you have employees.

[00:40:36] I think it's, uh, it goes back to the original point of, you know, yeah, we, we don't share,

[00:40:42] but owning a hundred percent of 50 may not be as good as owning 50% of.

[00:40:50] I mean, Mark Cuban used to say owning a hundred percent of a grape is less than owning 50% of a

[00:40:58] watermelon. So he always made that example. It's like, as much as you feel like you're giving up

[00:41:02] half your company to someone else, what would you rather have half of a watermelon or a whole grape?

[00:41:08] Yeah. And that goes to your point. It might only get this big or it could ever get this big.

[00:41:15] If I'm flying solo, if I have another mind or minds, people that are vested, that are going the same

[00:41:23] direction that can put in half the work, half the money, half the ideas, like maybe it turns into a

[00:41:27] watermelon. Yeah. It's just, uh, also finding that person when it is a partnership, you know, to get on

[00:41:35] the same page as to how big do you want to get? You prefer watermelons over grapes. What do you like

[00:41:40] better? You had to take your pick a bowl of grapes or a nice big slice of watermelon. What would you

[00:41:49] like? I go watermelon. Yeah. Um, share profits. Yeah. It's just, you know, there is also too,

[00:42:03] that all the decisions, all the financial decisions, like I get to like call the shots, you know?

[00:42:08] Yeah. Yep. So there was a benefit for sure. And one last one I wanted to bring up was, um,

[00:42:16] another con of partnership is, is in liability. So again, when you're in a partnership structure,

[00:42:25] there can be personal liability because it's not like if you're just one person and you're,

[00:42:32] you own an LLC or an S corp or something like that, it's really like, that's, that's your shield.

[00:42:37] When there's multiple people involved, again, I'm not an attorney or an accountant. There's,

[00:42:42] there's different levels of risk, which can pose financial problems. So that, that's another aspect

[00:42:51] to a partnership. And then again, you have three different opinions or two different opinions or five

[00:42:56] different opinions on how we handle that. Well, you're, you're attaching yourself, right? So now,

[00:43:02] not only are you responsible for your own decisions and actions, right? But now you're being brought in

[00:43:09] to being attached to these other people, their decisions, you know, posting something stupid

[00:43:15] online. Well, that's you, right? You know, um, financial decisions too. I mean, on the news,

[00:43:21] right? So this person's embezzling this money, right? Right. So there's, there's,

[00:43:27] when you get involved in those partnerships, there's, there's other avenues that you get

[00:43:34] attached to for better or for worse. Amen. So when are you going to get a partner?

[00:43:42] I'm calling them out folks. Yeah. Uh, not that I'm like it, like, it would be more like,

[00:43:48] I'm not itching to do that. It would be, wow. Like I just met this guy and gal and they are just,

[00:43:57] they're talking my language. Right. Right. They, they, they view this industry or they view the,

[00:44:03] an agency the exact same way that I view the agency. Yeah. And, and I think it would be that,

[00:44:12] that like maybe then furthered to a conversation and it's like, okay, well, what would this look

[00:44:18] like? You know what I mean? It would be a, it would be a, a few steps in between to,

[00:44:26] to kind of get to that point. What's also interesting is that, you know, because you started out the way

[00:44:31] you started out at Mooney Insurance Brokers and you're like, I didn't really have anyone that was

[00:44:36] going in that direction or was driven or like that I knew that I felt like I could trust.

[00:44:44] And now that you're 12 years in now that you're 12 years in and you've been going that whole journey,

[00:44:52] you know, by yourself, but I mean, now you have 10 million, you know, podcast fans, you know,

[00:44:59] screaming and banging on your office door, you got that deadbolt locked and they're like,

[00:45:04] can I have your autograph? And you're like, I don't know. I'm 11 million. Okay. 11 million. Gotcha.

[00:45:12] Um, so now that you have all that experience and you're more like, you're more experienced,

[00:45:19] but you're more open-minded. Like you had said, you're like, ah, if I look back on it, like I would

[00:45:23] have done a partnership. Maybe I would have looked harder for a partnership. So now you're probably

[00:45:27] looking much harder than you were before. Cause you're like, Hey, if I come across the right

[00:45:30] person, like I would consider that. Very similar. And what I, what I said previously in naming my

[00:45:39] agency, right? Like I said, I use Mooney Insurance, but now looking back, I probably would have done

[00:45:43] that differently. Yep. Right. Um, same with like a partner, you know, I think, uh, starting with a

[00:45:53] partner, um, could have been the way that I went, you know, if I had to do it again.

[00:46:01] That's interesting. Awesome, man. All right. Well, I'll have to tell the folks what they need to know

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[00:46:55] All right. Well, that's all we have for this one, folks. Thank you for tuning in again to another

[00:47:02] episode of Bricks and Risk. See you soon. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and

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