Episode #36: Stop Saying Yes and Learn When to Say "No"

[00:00:00] We understand that not everyone is going to be a fit for our agency. But at the end of the day,

[00:00:07] if they reached out to us, they reached out to us for a reason and it could have been a referral.

[00:00:11] It could have been that they found reviews online. And so we don't want to just like

[00:00:16] leave that person cold like with no options because sometimes people are in a pinch, right?

[00:00:22] It's like, that person comes to me with a few claims. I can't help them, but I still...

[00:00:28] You can't just throw them out like garbage. You're like, how do I

[00:00:30] point them in the right direction to still get help? It's just not going to be through my company.

[00:00:40] Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance and building your business.

[00:00:46] Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from

[00:00:52] our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

[00:01:02] Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Timmy Garrity.

[00:01:08] And I'm Sean Mooney. What about Seany Mooney? No, M-O-O-N-E-E. Did anyone ever call you Seany

[00:01:16] growing up? That's like a real filly thing. No, but my one boss would always sing this song

[00:01:23] when I'd come in the room. What do you say? All along the Shawnee River.

[00:01:28] I like that. Yeah, that's some good Irish shit right there. Yeah. All right, man. What are we talking

[00:01:34] about? Today we're talking about firing clients. Nice. You mean when to say no? When to say no.

[00:01:45] Which we've talked about the infamous Mooney insurance broker's deadbolt.

[00:01:49] Yeah. Six deadbolts. Even though you're on a main thoroughfare in Amber,

[00:01:55] Pennsylvania. Kind of weird, isn't it? I mean, I get it. We're really going to get into it today,

[00:01:59] so I think this is going to be a lot of fun. All right. So let's get into it, man.

[00:02:06] When... All right, no. Here's a good question. Why would you say no to a client?

[00:02:11] That's easy. Okay, tell me. From my perspective.

[00:02:17] It's when to say no to a client is easy for us because we really have it dialed in as to

[00:02:27] who our ideal clients are. Kind of like you have a mold. Yep. That's what you're looking for.

[00:02:34] Yep. It's like people actually call it your customer avatar. Okay. I like that.

[00:02:42] So you're creating a profile of that person or people or whatever client you're looking for,

[00:02:52] and it is. It's a mold or a template that kind of either fits or it doesn't fit.

[00:02:57] Give me a real current timeframe of what does that mold look like for you?

[00:03:04] So if you're going to say yes to a client, what would be the ideal client for you today?

[00:03:09] What's the avatar? So today would be a... We do it by lines. Okay.

[00:03:17] So lines of insurance. So a person that came to us is like, hey, I have a car and I rent an

[00:03:26] apartment, right? And I want you to quote the car but I don't want anything else.

[00:03:34] Okay. So it's like one line of business with a premium amount of whatever.

[00:03:43] And in that client wouldn't be someone that we would necessarily target.

[00:03:50] So in that initial survey, we haven't thought just some preliminary information to gather

[00:04:00] all of the detail is we would have an understanding of that, right?

[00:04:04] They tell us what they want in that preliminary questionnaire.

[00:04:10] And then we analyze it and we say, okay, this is someone that we want to work with

[00:04:19] or it's not a good fit for our agency. Got it.

[00:04:23] And I'm using that as one example. Sure. It's just one.

[00:04:26] As like these lines of insurance, but it can be more. It can be that someone comes to us with

[00:04:34] three claims in the last five years and it's like we know that we're going to be very limited on

[00:04:41] the ability to help that person. So rather than spin our wheels and especially if they're looking

[00:04:47] for something quick, we know how much time we're going to have to invest in that potential

[00:04:54] client. And so it's really trying to meet what they're looking for and then like,

[00:05:01] is it worth our time? And do they meet kind of our criteria as to who the preferred candidate would be?

[00:05:08] Got it. So that makes sense. How about you? What's...

[00:05:13] For me in real estate, I'd say probably the number one thing I look for and I kind of screen for

[00:05:20] right away is a client. So I do buying, selling and leasing. So it just depends on the situation,

[00:05:28] whether or not it's going to be me handling it, which most times it is, or maybe someone on my

[00:05:33] team depending on the location, you know, the amount of service needed. But the one thing I really

[00:05:39] look for is someone looking to build a relationship with an agent. And it's very easy

[00:05:46] for me to see if someone just, you know, let's say they call it or email and say,

[00:05:50] hey, I want to go see these five homes and I have no idea who they are, where they came from.

[00:05:54] They give me nothing else. I know they're just looking to go out and browse with anyone and

[00:06:00] everyone that gives them the time. They could have sent that email to the five people.

[00:06:03] So it's very similar to me. I mean, you know, given that scenario, you know how much time

[00:06:11] on your end is going to be invested with this client, which may or may not work out.

[00:06:19] Yeah. And I think one of those things up front, which is very interesting and

[00:06:22] some agents look at it this way and some don't, but it's also being respectful of each other's time.

[00:06:28] Definitely. Because if someone reaches out to me like this morning and says, hey,

[00:06:31] I want to see something early afternoon, they have zero respect for my time.

[00:06:36] And I'm a pretty busy guy, not only in business, but with my family.

[00:06:40] So therefore most of my stuff is at least 24 hours out, if not more.

[00:06:44] And therefore it's like, again, there's not one perfect home for everyone out there.

[00:06:50] There's many, many, many opportunities. It's a matter of figuring out what you want

[00:06:55] and then finding the way to get that. And that's really what a good agent will do.

[00:07:00] That's where the relationship comes in.

[00:07:02] And what does that process look like for you when you're evaluating the potential client?

[00:07:09] I mean, most of my stuff comes in warm. For the stuff that comes in warm,

[00:07:14] I still always want to schedule a buyer consultation or a listing presentation if it's a seller.

[00:07:18] Right. It's rare that I get a tenant and say,

[00:07:21] can you help me find a rental and I need some additional work?

[00:07:25] But I do get the people, and you've asked me this before,

[00:07:27] if someone has one property to rent, would you help them with that?

[00:07:31] And the answer is yes. But it would have to depend on the relationship.

[00:07:36] If it's someone I've never met, they didn't come through someone in my network,

[00:07:39] I got 123 Main Street, can you help me lease it?

[00:07:41] I'd probably first see if someone on my team is interested in servicing that client,

[00:07:45] knowing how it came in. But if it's someone in my network and say,

[00:07:48] hey, I've had this rental property for five years,

[00:07:51] and I've always rented it myself, can you help me rent it this time?

[00:07:54] Because my time is short, I want to get more rent. I don't want to do as much work,

[00:07:58] like whatever it is, that is more of an opportunity for me to be like,

[00:08:02] step in, build the relationship through that rental.

[00:08:05] And again, that's going to turn into more stuff down the road.

[00:08:08] Have you ever come across a scenario where you thought someone didn't fit and maybe down the road?

[00:08:15] You were like, oh man, I missed out on that opportunity.

[00:08:19] I've had a few instances where I've gotten a little emotional about working through situations

[00:08:26] with clients. Like you were crying? I like that. But basically, to the point where I'm heated.

[00:08:36] And because it's almost like they almost don't have any manners.

[00:08:41] And you and I were raised with manners. We went to the Catholic school.

[00:08:45] Boys will be boys, but the Sal boys will be gentlemen.

[00:08:49] Oh my gosh. Anyway, true story. I love it.

[00:08:53] So for me, it's like there's maybe been a few instances where maybe I've overreacted.

[00:08:59] But I'll be honest. Wait, wait. So what did that tell us that incident?

[00:09:03] You got to go through where you, I want to hear you overreacting. Sure.

[00:09:08] There was one instance where I knew some people that were buying a home.

[00:09:13] I have a transaction coordinator. We're working through the entire transaction

[00:09:17] and about a week before closing, they said, we're not going to pay for your transaction fee

[00:09:22] because we feel it's all right to negotiate that out of the deal.

[00:09:26] I said, I understand that. Are they part of the NAR settlement?

[00:09:31] They were not because this is years ago. And these were people I knew. And I said,

[00:09:35] I'll be honest with you. If you told me this in the beginning,

[00:09:39] I probably would have waived it or worked something out with my transaction corner

[00:09:42] knowing that you either didn't want that level of service

[00:09:44] or that you had a problem with that fee. But we're at the five yard line.

[00:09:49] And to say I've gotten all that service and all that benefit and now I don't want to pay for it

[00:09:54] because it's my right to negotiate that. That really hit me the wrong way because I feel like

[00:09:59] now you're not taking care of my people because you feel like it's your right to be frugal.

[00:10:03] Hey, it's everyone's right to be frugal. But when that happened,

[00:10:07] that was like, I got into like protection mode for my transaction quarter. And I said,

[00:10:12] here's what we're going to do. I'm going to eat your transaction fee and we're never going to work

[00:10:17] together again. And we're going to finish this. I'm going to finish this transaction out. It's

[00:10:21] going to be very professional. We're never going to work together again. And they had

[00:10:25] another place to sell a big sale that I was going to list for them. And you know what?

[00:10:30] On principle, I said, I'm not interested. And I didn't want to do it again. So I really

[00:10:36] laid down the gauntlet of my principles for how you handle this are completely different

[00:10:42] from yours. And what was therefore not a good fit? What was their response? Like,

[00:10:46] they think they're within the lines and this is totally normal and we don't want to pay this.

[00:10:51] So you're going to make this go away. And then but they know that they have this house to sell.

[00:10:59] And then you say, I don't want to bother like, what was what was that response when you told

[00:11:05] them that? I think they were just pleased that I waived the fee, which basically meant

[00:11:09] there was they didn't care whether they worked with me. I think it was, you know,

[00:11:14] circumstance that put us together in that deal. And that as soon as they tried to get one over

[00:11:21] on me and my company, I just I wasn't having so for them, it was like a win. Like we got

[00:11:26] we got this for less. We didn't have to pay this fee. And they didn't. I still waived

[00:11:31] it. Yeah. And I probably walked away from maybe a 10, $12,000 commission on the next property.

[00:11:36] Yeah. Which some people will be like, you're out of your mind. I'm like,

[00:11:39] I'm not because that's not someone I want to keep working with. Well, the other thing too is

[00:11:44] if they acted that way on this property, right? You got to imagine that there would have been

[00:11:50] some sort of, I don't know, some sort of action on the second one. They would

[00:12:01] I mean, they would have been squirrely. They would have been playing games.

[00:12:05] Well, it's like it goes back to the foundation of this when to say no. If you always say yes,

[00:12:12] you're going to get beaten and bullied around. Now again, if it's about dollars,

[00:12:16] get beaten and bullied around. If that's the way you want to do it. If it's about

[00:12:19] relationships and finding that good fit for you and your company, the one that appreciates

[00:12:26] that service, how you're set up. And then again, having that relationship for decades to

[00:12:31] come, they can recommend me to all their friends and family and be like, Tim's the man.

[00:12:35] He's the best real estate agent I've ever worked with. And that happens. The ones where it's

[00:12:40] you know, you have to say no, I don't want recommendations from them because as you have

[00:12:46] said before, someone who comes in with a not so great track record to get insurance

[00:12:50] is probably going to recommend people that also function the same way. And that's

[00:12:54] that's not how you want to roll birds of a feather.

[00:12:58] Talk about how long you were in because I imagine this didn't happen in your first year

[00:13:04] of being that was actually that particular instance was about probably about four years ago.

[00:13:11] I was about 11 years in. Okay, there's one instance that I remember is probably like

[00:13:16] my third year in real estate and I had an investor client who had already done

[00:13:20] a transaction with and was very, very difficult to get done. But I'm new. It's my third year.

[00:13:25] You know, again, I did one sale in my first year in real estate, maybe a handful of my second

[00:13:29] year. So my third year, I started to like hit my stride, I'm doing multiple sales,

[00:13:33] I'm working with different clients. Yeah, I know my stuff. I got my process down.

[00:13:38] And I did this one sale with them and it was kind of a nightmare.

[00:13:43] One of the unspoken things in real estate is that if you help an investor

[00:13:48] client buy a property, you're obviously you're coaching them on like, hey, this is once you fix

[00:13:53] this up. If you do it this way, it's probably gonna be worth why and then I'll list it for you and we'll

[00:13:57] get why. It's like unspoken that if you help them acquire it, they're probably going to work

[00:14:01] with you on the back end to list it. So that particular, you would think that particular

[00:14:06] property, I helped them buy it put in a ton of time, ton of effort, and they ended up doing

[00:14:12] a private deal to get it sold, which I didn't fault them for because I'm like, man, if they

[00:14:17] got an interested buyer on their own and they want to go to an attorney to handle the paperwork,

[00:14:20] I'm fine with that. Like a brother or cousin or something, hey, you know, got this house,

[00:14:24] okay, you know, here you go. Like I don't need to be involved. Right.

[00:14:28] But then as we started looking for the second investment property, it was like a complete

[00:14:32] nightmare. Like they were working with multiple agents, they were pinning me against other

[00:14:36] people. They're like, Hey, Bill took me out the other day or Sally took me out there

[00:14:40] day. This is what they said. And I said, here's how we're going to handle this.

[00:14:45] I just don't think this is a good fit. And again, kind of little heated. What do you mean?

[00:14:50] We've been doing business together. And I said, I know we have, but it's made me realize at

[00:14:56] this point, just not a good fit. I don't think it's a good fit for you.

[00:14:59] And it's definitely not a good fit for me. So I'm just going to let you go work with that

[00:15:02] other agent or other agents you've been talking to. And I think they're going

[00:15:05] to service your needs better. Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-hosts.

[00:15:11] But don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode and I'll get right back to it in a moment.

[00:15:17] Our audience grows through word of mouth. So if you would please take a moment of your time

[00:15:21] and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help

[00:15:27] spread the BNR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate

[00:15:33] your time and trust. Now back to the show. Very similar with us. So part of the

[00:15:45] survey that we have initially for like a business account or commercial insurance

[00:15:49] is we really want to size up where we are in the depth chart. So one of the first questions is,

[00:15:58] all right, who, where are you in the process? Okay. Right. So we want to know,

[00:16:05] like, all right, if you already sent this out to two other brokers, I don't want it. Right. Like,

[00:16:11] you know, you're not into that game. They say like 80% of the business will go to the first person

[00:16:16] in, right? Right. So you only have a 20% chance if you're the second person in now from the third.

[00:16:21] It's like, you know what? You know, my time is better spent working with someone else.

[00:16:28] Absolutely. So in addition to that is like commercial insurance too is like

[00:16:34] the commercial carriers, they actually block you out and won't allow because it takes time. I mean,

[00:16:41] business insurance was a lot of... Yeah, it's way more than just getting a quote on your car.

[00:16:45] Right. So carrier X isn't going to take the time to work up six different proposals for

[00:16:55] six different... It just, it doesn't work that way. Yeah. And so that makes it a little bit easier

[00:17:01] because we're already like, hey, who did you get terms from? Where do things stand? What's the timeline,

[00:17:07] you know, to try to size it up? And that does make it a little easier for us to know,

[00:17:12] you know, how invested are they in us? Yeah. Having a relationship with us or are they just

[00:17:19] out there, you know. Just pending one person against the other as I put it.

[00:17:24] I just got an email this morning from a person that reached out that, you know, must send the same

[00:17:33] email out every single year. It's a copy paste. Yeah. Here's my new policies, get quotes.

[00:17:40] And I'm like... I got email templates to get quotes and insurance.

[00:17:43] It almost looks like an AI bot. Just like, did it for them?

[00:17:48] Right. The way the chat GPT they're like, give me a good email that says, how do I get a quote from

[00:17:54] Mooney Insurance Brokers? And they're like, who's Mooney Insurance Brokers?

[00:17:58] What? Did I talk to you? Who? Like, sounds made up.

[00:18:01] Yeah. So we get a lot of those that people... They don't want to do the work. They don't

[00:18:06] want to call. They don't want to go through. They just want to send some stuff out and

[00:18:11] have you do all the work. And, you know, if you come back with a...

[00:18:15] About dollars and cents. Like, if you beat it by like two bucks, what's to say,

[00:18:20] you know, six months from now, they wouldn't find someone else who can beat it by five bucks a

[00:18:23] month. And it's just a vicious cycle of like, they're never going to want to stay with me

[00:18:28] anyway and value what I have to offer, which is a relationship focused business model for

[00:18:33] insurance. Especially now. So it's like cost of insurance and the price of insurance.

[00:18:38] Prices is like what you pay for your premiums. The cost of insurance is like everything.

[00:18:44] Exactly. Right? And so right now with the carriers, you know, taking rate and being

[00:18:50] super restrictive on what they're willing to write is like, we have to consult with our

[00:18:56] clients. Right? We have to consult with them on the front end because we want to like,

[00:19:01] ensure that they have the proper coverage, that, you know, they're maximizing all of

[00:19:07] their discounts and setting themself up to be in a good position, you know, for next year as well.

[00:19:13] Right. And so again, that's time. Time we want to like work with them, you know, and have that

[00:19:19] relationship and build that trust so that when we say, you know, you have damage on your vehicle,

[00:19:28] like you might not want to put that claim through insurance because ultimately

[00:19:33] you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. Right. And when it renews, you're going to

[00:19:37] be scrambling and in a much worse position than had you had gone this round.

[00:19:43] You're advising them again, fitting the mold of money insurance brokers. You're advising them.

[00:19:49] Here's how you keep your insurance. Yeah. Not like here's how I get, I save you the most

[00:19:54] money or here's how, you know, you're getting like bundled insurance, like whatever

[00:20:00] it is that they're looking for, you're basically telling them like one of the risks today is losing

[00:20:06] your insurance and not being able to find another insurance company that will,

[00:20:12] you know, support you and protect you moving forward. And we've talked about this because I

[00:20:17] give you clients all the time, you know, we had a little water issue in our house recently

[00:20:21] and it was kind of the same advice. You're like, look, that is so minor and you know people

[00:20:26] in construction, you're better off to just go get that done, spend the money and not put a claim

[00:20:32] into this. Because again, what does it cost? Here's what your deductible is like, how good is

[00:20:37] it really going to get? And then guess what? Your bill is probably going to go up so that

[00:20:40] costs money and or they just don't want to be your carrier anymore, which is insane.

[00:20:46] And that's, you know, if I could take it one step further, like on my end,

[00:20:49] if someone's buying a big ticket item, which again, half a million dollar home,

[00:20:54] that's a big ticket item, is really letting know lots of things up front. Like when someone's

[00:20:59] like trying to make an offer in today's world, especially if it's in like the inner suburbs,

[00:21:03] there's multiple offers on almost everything. How about Maple Glen? Is that a hot market right

[00:21:07] now? Super chilly, bro. I mean, you can buy whatever you want there. But like literally,

[00:21:13] like price upfront, like let's say for whatever reason, it's starting to happen in this market

[00:21:18] where we're the one and only offer. Yep. And they just want to gouge them. They're like,

[00:21:23] okay, they'll just say 500. Let's go in at 450. I'm like, that's not how you get a deal done.

[00:21:27] Here's what we do. Maybe come around like 45, 490. Say you save 10 or 15 grand off the price,

[00:21:34] which is a lot, which is probably like that's the funny thing. You're willing to spend 525 over

[00:21:40] here, but now you want 450. Exactly. And then I also like that's fair because I think we get

[00:21:46] 10 or 15 off now. I still think we have leverage when we inspect it because we're the only game

[00:21:52] in town, maybe get another five. So save some of your ammo. Like don't go all in upfront and try

[00:21:58] and gouge someone because that is how the experience is going to go. It could turn sour real quick.

[00:22:04] You have to find a way to compromise in real estate just like you would in insurance. Yep.

[00:22:09] It's just a different set of circumstances. I think the way that I go about it and I have

[00:22:14] this conversation and I have it all the time with our clients or prospects or whoever it

[00:22:19] may be is my response. So if they call and say, hey, I was pulling out of a parking garage

[00:22:27] and scraped the side of my car, the way that I approach it. And I think from my perspective,

[00:22:33] totally unbiased is I tell them, you're like, if I'm talking about my business,

[00:22:39] I'll be completely unbiased. Yeah. But I tell them, I say, if this were me, right?

[00:22:47] Yeah. It's a really good way to put it. So I tell them, if I'm you, you can do what you want.

[00:22:55] Like I'm not telling you you have to do this or have to do that.

[00:22:58] Right. If I scratched my car, I'm going to tell you what I would do if I was you

[00:23:05] in this situation. Yeah. And I think that lets people understand that you're not trying to

[00:23:15] push them. Yeah. You're not trying to sell them. No. No. At the end of the day, all I want

[00:23:22] is what's best for my client. Yep. Similar to you. If they're in this house and they want to go 50K

[00:23:29] low, you probably wouldn't do that if it were you. Exactly. And you probably have seen deals

[00:23:37] go south. Totally. Because of that. Like not even counter. Yeah. Recently, so I sent out the

[00:23:45] quarterly magazine through Reminder Media, Luke Acre, what's up man? Luke. And so recently when I

[00:23:53] had to shift my career and I had to branch off from my partnership and start a team on my own,

[00:23:59] one of the things I have on the backside of the magazine is some of the stats I've been

[00:24:02] involved in. And pretty much from me being a solo agent to running my previous brokerage,

[00:24:08] it's like almost $400 million in real estate has crossed my desk. And when I was putting that down,

[00:24:18] I was like, man, I've looked at a lot of deals. Yeah. And I've been through a lot of nonsense

[00:24:25] to even say that I've done that much. But to your point, it really is you don't really

[00:24:31] learn these things until you get burned. Yeah. And being open to everything upfront,

[00:24:35] I think is the best way to be because then you start to figure out which way you want to

[00:24:38] do it. Because if you're more transactional, you're never going to say no. It's always yes.

[00:24:41] Yeah. If you're thinking more long term or strategically, relationship based,

[00:24:46] however you want to look at it, that is criteria for getting good at it.

[00:24:51] Not everything is a yes. Sometimes you either have to stand up for yourself or your business

[00:24:56] or you also just have to stand up for the fact that even if I did this with you,

[00:25:01] I don't think it's going to go well. So you have to be willing to kind of just

[00:25:04] unfortunately pass off on the commission and just say, I think you should go with someone else.

[00:25:09] And that's helping them out too. Yeah. Because they're like, I'm going to go

[00:25:12] abuse someone else. And that's what they want to do. And someone else is going to say yes.

[00:25:16] And that's a win-win for them. We have, and I said this before on the show, is like

[00:25:21] we understand that not everyone is going to be a fit for our agency.

[00:25:26] Yep. But at the end of the day, if they reached out to us,

[00:25:30] they reached out to us for a reason. And it could have been a referral. It could have

[00:25:33] been that they found reviews online. And so we don't want to just leave that person cold

[00:25:39] with no options because sometimes people are in a pinch, right? It's like,

[00:25:44] person comes to me with a few claims. I can't help them. But I still...

[00:25:49] You can't just throw them out like garbage. You're like, how do I point them in the right

[00:25:53] direction to still get help? It's just not going to be through my company.

[00:25:56] Yep. And so what we do is try to at least offer them some option,

[00:26:05] a different place to go. Craigslist?

[00:26:08] Not Craigslist. No, I don't think that that would be a good avenue.

[00:26:13] Eurora?

[00:26:14] Eurora. If they had specific questions about their insurance, they could look at Eurora.

[00:26:23] But there's different agents that we have in our network. We had a client moving in in

[00:26:28] Indianapolis. Can you write on them? No, we can't help you. But then we were able to reach out to

[00:26:32] a partner agent. I know someone in that area.

[00:26:34] We did that. There was another commercial client that their agent recently retired.

[00:26:41] And I said, when's it renewed? And they're like, in three weeks. And I'm like,

[00:26:46] there's nothing that you can get done in three weeks. So I said, just stay where you're at.

[00:26:52] We're happy to help you down the road. That sort of thing. And she appreciated it.

[00:26:56] She's like, well, thank you so much. I can't even get John to get back to me with an answer

[00:27:01] or response. I said, just renew and just give yourself enough time next year that you can

[00:27:07] put everything together. And then the people with the accidents and stuff like that,

[00:27:11] we have different outlets that we'll kind of share with them is like,

[00:27:14] we know you can get coverage with these people and send them that way.

[00:27:19] Awesome, man. Well, that's all we have for this one, folks. So thank you for tuning in again to

[00:27:25] another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you soon. Thank you for joining us on another episode

[00:27:32] of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets,

[00:27:38] and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all B and R episodes

[00:27:44] on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time,

[00:27:52] keep learning and keep growing.