Episode #19: "Feet on the Street" Lending with Jared Pontz

[00:00:00] amp, up until 2017. So probably for the first eight or nine years, I think I got to about

[00:00:08] 35 million right under 35 minutes, like 32 or 33 million in new originations in the year.

[00:00:15] And I was like, all right, I can't do this.

[00:00:17] Not enough hours a day.

[00:00:19] Not enough. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, it was nonstop and we were officially grinding

[00:00:27] at 32 million.

[00:00:28] Yeah, that's more than grinding.

[00:00:31] That's an understatement.

[00:00:33] Yeah, exactly.

[00:00:41] Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance and everything in between.

[00:00:47] Join us as we take you along our own brokerage building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of business experts.

[00:00:55] Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

[00:00:58] Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk.

[00:01:07] I'm Tim Garrity.

[00:01:08] And I'm Sean Mooney.

[00:01:10] And today, Sean, we have an awesome guest on today.

[00:01:13] We have Jared Ponce, who is president and managing partner of Direct Mortgage Loan Company and Alphant Ponce properties.

[00:01:20] How are you doing today, Jared?

[00:01:22] Hey guys, thanks for having me.

[00:01:24] Absolutely. Thanks for joining us.

[00:01:26] A little background on Jared.

[00:01:28] On top of being the president as well as the managing partner of those two companies, his combined expertise in real estate investment, property management and private lending

[00:01:37] inform his unique perspective on Philadelphia real estate.

[00:01:41] Alphant Ponce properties is a multifaceted real estate firm currently managing over 600 rental units in Northwest Philadelphia.

[00:01:49] Alphant Ponce subsidiary operation, Direct Mortgage Loan Company is a private lending company specializing in short term fixed rate financing.

[00:01:57] DMLC finances real estate investors and developers throughout the Philadelphia and the surrounding area.

[00:02:04] So a little bit about Jared born and raised in Philadelphia.

[00:02:08] He's rocking an MBA from Temple University, served in the US Peace Corps.

[00:02:14] He's an active real estate investor.

[00:02:16] He serves on the Mount Airy Business Improvement District and has been recognized as one of the most influential financial professionals by the Philadelphia Enquirer, which is awesome man.

[00:02:27] So first question.

[00:02:29] I know that you're an active investor, but you started out in the Peace Corps as I just mentioned.

[00:02:35] So tell us a little bit about how you got into real estate investment development and how that helped you become the president of the companies that you are today.

[00:02:47] Oh, for starters, thanks for the intro makes me sound very fancy, but not not so fancy in real life.

[00:02:55] We're formal.

[00:02:56] We're formal.

[00:02:57] They are extremely.

[00:02:59] Can't tell by how we're dressed.

[00:03:01] Yeah, me too.

[00:03:02] Just put on a T-shirt for you.

[00:03:04] So I'm going to answer your question.

[00:03:07] That's right. I went into the Peace Corps after college.

[00:03:10] I got the undergrad at University of Delaware.

[00:03:13] And I had about a year to kill between college and the Peace Corps.

[00:03:17] I was assigned. They gave me a date. I had a lot of time.

[00:03:21] And I got an internship with my now business partner.

[00:03:26] So I was basically interning for Bob Elfan.

[00:03:30] I did a nine month internship for him and basically sat across his desk, listen to his phone calls.

[00:03:38] And kind of got myself in on the ground floor on the property management business on what was a very small management company at that time.

[00:03:47] And on a sort of a private lending business, which was direct marginal company at the time had a few million dollars in receivables.

[00:03:56] You know, maybe I don't know exactly how many loans, but a fraction of what we do today.

[00:04:01] And I just sort of started listening, paying attention spent nine months with that went off to the Peace Corps like I had planned.

[00:04:08] Bob and I stayed in touch and towards the end of my two and a almost two and a half years in the Peace Corps.

[00:04:14] Bob basically said, you know, come back and you know, asset manage for me and figure out your life.

[00:04:21] And I was sort of debating whether not to continue working in aid agencies across overseas or coming back and what to do with my life and Bob and I had a good report so I decided to come back and I asked that

[00:04:34] to him in about a year into that sort of decided that I wanted to go back and get my MBA and I said, you know, this was great experience Bob.

[00:04:44] I love you. I appreciate the mentorship but you know, I think I want to sort of get out of the mom and pop business and go into the big bad corporate road.

[00:04:53] You know, grass is always greener. Yeah, sort of mentality. I was young at the time to know any better.

[00:04:57] I was really convinced me that the grass was greener where I was sitting and that I had lots of opportunities if I was interested in them.

[00:05:07] And one thing led to another and know if of course of about a 10 or 12 month period of time he convinced me to you know, I went I ended up going back into a night school at Temple University to get my MBA Bob and I formed what was a very minority

[00:05:24] company for me over that period of time and so I sort of went from being this asset manager slash property manager to business partner on a very small scale.

[00:05:35] And then over the you know, at this point it's been about 18 years 19 years now we've been together and partners for about 15 others.

[00:05:45] And over a year period that partnerships gone from you know 5% to now we're equal partners in the name of the company's changed and you know I've been running the day to day operations now for five or six years exclusively but probably the longer than that at the, you know, at some level

[00:06:01] and you know he basically said hey, you know I basically said to him, I want to develop I want to buy I want to develop our mortgage company there's some opportunities here.

[00:06:12] And he said let's do it I'll support you but you got to do the heavy lifting and that's sort of what's happened.

[00:06:19] Did he ever share with you Jared I'm curious did you ever share like what it was about Jared that kind of made him want to make those.

[00:06:28] You must have impressed the hell out of him.

[00:06:30] I mean, because internship.

[00:06:32] I'm thinking like a young kid right when you guys when you were doing your internship.

[00:06:40] So, yeah, so I was 28 when he made me partner or brought me in on his part as his partner.

[00:06:48] And I think, you know, I don't want to put words in his mouth but over the years you know we've had lots of conversations where this sort of thing has come up and I think there's a few things for starters he saw a lot of himself in me.

[00:07:04] You know, a lot of people are like this I'm not saying this like this is unique to me but in my specific case in my relationship with him.

[00:07:12] I was a grinder.

[00:07:14] I don't have I got my MBA but I was the kid in the MBAs get my MBA that was like, not in it.

[00:07:22] I just wasn't vibing with the academic piece.

[00:07:25] Yep, everybody was there sort of knew what their career track was going to be bad and I sort of had a real world experience and I couldn't do any PowerPoints that could do Excel spreadsheets but I could I could think my way through real life.

[00:07:37] And so, you know he sort of saw a grinder he saw a hard worker, somebody that was tenacious in negotiations wasn't going to take no for an answer three four five times in a row.

[00:07:48] Was they ultimately going to get to a guess or alternative solution.

[00:07:53] I think he just saw a lot of qualities in me that he sort of saw in himself.

[00:07:58] And I wasn't you know, I was I like to say to my team.

[00:08:03] I'm a grinder and I want you guys to be grinders.

[00:08:06] Yeah.

[00:08:07] And I'm a communicator.

[00:08:08] I want you guys to be good communicators.

[00:08:10] And so I think he saw some of those in me and the, you know, one thing led to another, like I said, that's awesome.

[00:08:17] All right, so you go you go to temple.

[00:08:19] You go get your MBA.

[00:08:20] Did you have a focus on your MBA?

[00:08:21] Was there a specific part of the MBA you were interested in just get more of a general degree?

[00:08:26] I'm not sure.

[00:08:28] Good question.

[00:08:29] Let me look at that picture on the wall.

[00:08:31] Okay.

[00:08:32] What is my got my computer.

[00:08:34] No, it was a general.

[00:08:36] I mean, it was it was generalist.

[00:08:39] It I think I took finance classes.

[00:08:41] I TPC, I did marketing classes.

[00:08:43] I took all statistics.

[00:08:44] I took all the normal stuff.

[00:08:46] I don't think there was any particular focus there.

[00:08:49] It was took me about three and a half four years to get through it.

[00:08:52] I did night on nights and weekends.

[00:08:54] My wife was a saint and we had a young baby towards the end of it.

[00:08:58] So it was it was hard, but it was worth it.

[00:09:02] Not necessarily because I learned how to do math better than somebody else.

[00:09:07] It gave me confidence to know that I could hang with people wearing suits all day long.

[00:09:14] And I don't.

[00:09:15] And so it just gave me that confidence about myself that I belonged and I could.

[00:09:19] I think I already knew I did based on where I was at that point in my career,

[00:09:23] but it really just kind of elevated my mental outlook on who I was.

[00:09:28] And for that, it was worth every penny and all the time.

[00:09:32] Awesome.

[00:09:33] Can you talk about the private lending?

[00:09:37] Because a lot of times, you know, we think about buying and mortgages and how

[00:09:43] they're kind of attached at the hip with a mortgage company or bank and kind of talk

[00:09:50] to us about how that's different with you guys and.

[00:09:54] You know, what types of buyers you're working with on a daily basis.

[00:09:59] Yeah, sure.

[00:10:00] So direct mortgage loan company, which is our private lending way.

[00:10:03] You know, we specialize in short term bridge financing to real estate investors,

[00:10:07] developers, small business owners.

[00:10:09] And you know, we're lending money.

[00:10:12] It's a commodity business.

[00:10:14] There's a lot of people out there, there's banks, there's private lenders,

[00:10:17] there's private individuals, there's research, hedge funds and whatever.

[00:10:21] There's lots of different groups out there that anybody.

[00:10:23] So, you know, we're always trying to find ways to sort of differentiate ourselves.

[00:10:29] And, you know, we're working with small to mid-sized investors and developers who are sensitive to cost

[00:10:39] because there's small margins in the deals they're doing.

[00:10:43] And so, you know, we're more expensive than a bank, but we provide a lot of speed and a lot of ease in the overall process that they can't get from anybody else.

[00:10:53] You know, they can get it from the small mom and pop or captain lawyer doctor who's lending a few bucks,

[00:11:00] but they're they have limitations.

[00:11:02] They don't really know their way around the block.

[00:11:04] They ask a lot of questions that may not be quick.

[00:11:08] And there's a whole myriad of reasons why that may or may not work for somebody.

[00:11:12] There's other private lenders who could be too really big or not have the same sort of organization or setup that we have.

[00:11:19] There's banks that have the bureaucracy of a bank that we all know about.

[00:11:23] And so, we really provide a she-mind in the process.

[00:11:26] We really work hard communication, communication, communication over communicate fast response on emails, fast responses on texts,

[00:11:34] fast responses and calls. You get an email on a Friday.

[00:11:37] Make sure you're getting back to them before your days over.

[00:11:40] If you're getting an email over the weekend, look at it.

[00:11:42] If you can wait till Monday, you can wait till Monday.

[00:11:44] But if somebody is sensitive, time sensitive, let's get them a quick response.

[00:11:47] It takes 30 seconds to type out an email.

[00:11:49] Well, I think too, is a lot of these real estate investors, it is.

[00:11:54] The deal hinges on getting that information quickly.

[00:11:59] Right?

[00:12:00] Right.

[00:12:01] So, I guess a very unique niche with the investors that you deal with.

[00:12:06] And if you're able to provide that service, it's like, here, I'm going to give you a win.

[00:12:11] And then another win and another win and over and over and over.

[00:12:15] So, I guess a lot of yours are probably repeat clients.

[00:12:18] Huge percentage is repeat, like 65% of all of those last year.

[00:12:23] That's fantastic.

[00:12:24] So, it's a big percentage.

[00:12:25] But it's not just speed and like that email exchange before.

[00:12:29] It's really, it has to carry through the entire transaction.

[00:12:33] It has to be in the lead prospecting.

[00:12:35] It has to be on the application.

[00:12:37] It has to be on the loan closing and the conveyancy.

[00:12:43] It has to be on the draw process.

[00:12:45] After the fact.

[00:12:46] After the fact.

[00:12:47] It has to be through the servicing when someone asks for a payoff or some sort of question during the servicing process.

[00:12:53] Or on the tail end, where they come back to you for a follow-up deal, a follow-up transaction.

[00:12:57] It has to be sharp and you have to be fast all the way through that process because the borrower needs it.

[00:13:03] And even if they don't know they need it, they need it.

[00:13:05] The difference between being quick and efficient in your communications interactions between Glendor and borrower,

[00:13:13] it truly translates to time and money.

[00:13:17] And it's not necessarily something you can see in Excel spreadsheet.

[00:13:20] I say this all the time to people where we're sort of lead prospecting them.

[00:13:24] I say everything we do is not going to translate into that Excel that you're trying to figure out.

[00:13:29] Is Jared and Derek Moore just make sense or does this letter make sense?

[00:13:32] Yeah.

[00:13:33] If you look at it on Excel, we may not be... We're not going to be the cheapest.

[00:13:36] We don't want to sell ourselves the cheapest.

[00:13:38] That's not our competitive advantage.

[00:13:40] But if you plug it in the Excel, it's going to be pretty close.

[00:13:43] And then if you're able to look outside the box and look at all the other advantages that we offer,

[00:13:48] or we think we offer over our competitors or our non-competitor bank lenders out there,

[00:13:55] or whatever the other lenders may be,

[00:13:57] if you're able to sort of quantify those in some form or fashion,

[00:14:03] and then just do one and you'll see the value.

[00:14:06] It's almost over... So compelling, you will wonder in some...

[00:14:11] Not everybody, but a lot of people, you almost wonder why was I questioning this to begin with?

[00:14:15] Yeah.

[00:14:16] There's just so much... Look, I'm an investor myself.

[00:14:19] I own a bunch of properties and I know that when I'm dealing with the lender

[00:14:24] and I'm dealing mostly with banks, traditional lenders,

[00:14:28] but when I'm dealing with lenders, I know that the easier they make it for me,

[00:14:33] the happier I am.

[00:14:35] I'm willing to pay a 1.5% fee instead of a 1.25% fee or 1% fee instead of a 1.5% fee

[00:14:41] to sort of have that ease.

[00:14:43] The person who's going to respond to me quickly is going to not be a pain in the butt

[00:14:48] when I have a question mid-deal.

[00:14:50] I don't want to be a thorn in their side.

[00:14:52] I want to be a friendly relationship.

[00:14:54] What I find so cool about this whole thing,

[00:14:56] for the audience out there, people listening to this,

[00:14:59] they're trying to get tips, tricks, hacks,

[00:15:02] they're learning things about business,

[00:15:04] maybe they're new to the industry, maybe they've been in the business for decades like us,

[00:15:08] but even though you're a private lender, that's how we classify you.

[00:15:11] I was in the mortgage business for a little bit.

[00:15:13] You guys more or less started a bank.

[00:15:16] You said, okay, we need a capital source that we can lend on at certain rates

[00:15:24] with certain fees with the staff in place.

[00:15:27] How do you even start that?

[00:15:29] I know that you focus on small to mid-size because again,

[00:15:32] small to mid-size, let's be honest, especially in our market in Philadelphia,

[00:15:35] we don't always get access to the big lenders or the big banks

[00:15:38] because you're not proven.

[00:15:39] You haven't been around long enough.

[00:15:41] The deal's not big enough. You're too much risk.

[00:15:43] So how do you start, let's call it an air quotes,

[00:15:46] how do you start a bank to start lending to people who do that?

[00:15:50] Right. So the difference between us and a bank,

[00:15:52] there's lots of interest in a bank, but banks take deposits

[00:15:55] and have other ancillary, weight-wealth management,

[00:15:59] they provide CDs, money markets, all that sort of stuff.

[00:16:02] We don't do any of that. We're strictly a lender,

[00:16:05] but the lending piece of it, you're right.

[00:16:07] It sort of is like a bank in that way.

[00:16:09] And I was fortunate that my partner, Bob Elfan,

[00:16:13] his father started DirectMilkers Company 16 years ago

[00:16:17] and was basically lending to 100,000, 30,000, 25,000

[00:16:23] to friends and family and a business colleague here

[00:16:27] there, very small.

[00:16:28] Bob got into the business after he graduated from college

[00:16:32] and sort of started, he got into the taxi-cam,

[00:16:34] the stalling business and was lending money for that

[00:16:38] and was doing some small real estate transactions.

[00:16:40] When I got into the business portfolio,

[00:16:41] it was like three or four million dollars.

[00:16:43] We have like 80 million right now.

[00:16:45] Wow.

[00:16:46] A sign that there's some context.

[00:16:48] Yeah.

[00:16:49] And so I got in it and I was starting to help them

[00:16:52] put deals together and I was like,

[00:16:53] Bob, there's huge opportunity here.

[00:16:55] The city is made of row houses.

[00:16:58] It's like never ending.

[00:16:59] Let's try to focus and grow this sort of thing.

[00:17:02] And so we sort of slowly built,

[00:17:06] we worked with what was then Valley Green Bank

[00:17:08] and we slowly built our,

[00:17:11] well, even before that we were at Roxbury,

[00:17:13] a mania bank and no way,

[00:17:14] citizen's bank and East,

[00:17:17] it was East Falls Bank, I think was a bunch of banks.

[00:17:20] So we bounced around with little lines of credit

[00:17:22] from different banks to help fund it.

[00:17:24] We put our own caproy in.

[00:17:27] We raised a little bit of money

[00:17:29] and we slowly grown that out.

[00:17:31] And it's been a lot of work to be honest with you,

[00:17:34] as it should be, right?

[00:17:36] If it was easy, anybody would do it.

[00:17:38] But when we built out our capital stack

[00:17:41] to use a fancy term,

[00:17:43] just like we built everything else out,

[00:17:46] kind of a slow grind.

[00:17:48] We don't have aspirations in necessarily,

[00:17:51] having 500 million dollars in loans

[00:17:54] and lending in 17 states.

[00:17:56] And I like, it's private lending.

[00:17:59] I want to be able to see the real estate,

[00:18:01] touch the real estate.

[00:18:02] We've got a really great team.

[00:18:04] We've got several loan officers,

[00:18:06] operations manager, back office team,

[00:18:08] finance, kind of a back office accounting team.

[00:18:11] We've got a really good group together.

[00:18:14] And we want to keep it so that we know the deals,

[00:18:18] we know the neighborhoods, we know the areas

[00:18:21] and that's, it all ties in.

[00:18:25] So there's no reason to go out there

[00:18:27] and sort of bring in a private equity partner

[00:18:29] to give you 100 million dollars if you don't want 100 million

[00:18:32] dollars.

[00:18:33] That's a really cool idea.

[00:18:34] Do you guys underwrite the deals yourself?

[00:18:37] Like I'm thinking of this scenario where someone comes in.

[00:18:40] Wait, you're looking to do a real home affair?

[00:18:42] No, no, no.

[00:18:43] Not yet.

[00:18:44] Something I don't know, bro.

[00:18:45] Maybe a little bit.

[00:18:46] But no, I'm thinking of like the scenario that

[00:18:50] a person brings you a deal and says,

[00:18:52] oh, I want, you know, 200,000 for this rehab project

[00:18:56] that we're working on.

[00:18:57] Who's looking at the property and say,

[00:18:59] oh yeah, this one's not going to work.

[00:19:02] 200k maybe a little rich.

[00:19:04] Yeah.

[00:19:05] Like are you guys doing that directly or is it go into

[00:19:07] someone else to do it, to look at that?

[00:19:09] Or how do you kind of judge the deal or weigh the deal

[00:19:12] to make sure that it's appropriate and assess the risk?

[00:19:16] Yeah.

[00:19:17] Yeah.

[00:19:18] Well, great question for starters just to touch on one

[00:19:20] thing you just said.

[00:19:21] We're not just doing flips and row homes.

[00:19:23] So that's one piece, a big piece, but we're doing land.

[00:19:26] We do land entitlement.

[00:19:28] We do multi-family.

[00:19:29] We do new construction.

[00:19:31] A lot of single families, but warehouses industrial.

[00:19:34] Oh, wow.

[00:19:35] You sort of name this scenario or the property type.

[00:19:38] And, you know, we've either done it, we're doing it

[00:19:40] or we would do it.

[00:19:41] We're a fair game to lots and lots of scenarios.

[00:19:45] But back to your question, we do it all.

[00:19:50] For the longest time I was doing it, I'd say for up until

[00:19:55] 2017.

[00:19:58] So probably for the first eight or nine years, I think I got

[00:20:02] to about 35 million right under 35 minutes, like 32 or 33

[00:20:06] million in new originations in the year.

[00:20:10] And I was like, all right, I can't do this.

[00:20:12] Not enough hours a day.

[00:20:14] I mean, it was crazy.

[00:20:16] I mean, it was nonstop.

[00:20:18] And we were officially grinding at 32 million.

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:24] That's more than grinding.

[00:20:26] That's an understatement.

[00:20:29] Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:31] And so we, you know, we, we started building out the team.

[00:20:34] We started real like, all right, this is crazy.

[00:20:35] And so we added some back office.

[00:20:37] We added another loan officer and then another loan

[00:20:40] officer, a marketing person, an operations manager,

[00:20:42] a closer whatever.

[00:20:43] We kind of built it up.

[00:20:44] And I think our biggest year, we did 70 million in the new

[00:20:48] originations.

[00:20:49] I think it was two years last year, not 23, but 22, 22 is a

[00:20:53] little slower as the market, but still, I think we did almost

[00:20:56] 65 million last year.

[00:20:58] So we're doing, we do a nice amount of originations at this

[00:21:01] point, but we're doing it all.

[00:21:03] Somebody comes in, whether it's through a referral,

[00:21:05] through a website, me through a phone call,

[00:21:07] through our own prospecting.

[00:21:10] And you know, we built out through Salesforce,

[00:21:13] and we have a pretty cool system.

[00:21:15] Molly at our office has really worked closely with me and

[00:21:19] helped us come up with sort of how we like to do it,

[00:21:24] how we visualize it.

[00:21:26] And we built out the system to work so that it just flows

[00:21:29] right through.

[00:21:30] And we have collateral maps and we have all sorts of unique

[00:21:34] kind of ways that we're analyzing things the way I want

[00:21:37] to see it, not the way a bank wants to see it.

[00:21:40] It's kind of literally, it's like, hey, Molly,

[00:21:42] let's do this. Let me try and we do it.

[00:21:44] And then a week later, I'm like, Hey, what about this?

[00:21:46] What about that?

[00:21:47] What about this?

[00:21:48] And we just over the last six or seven years,

[00:21:50] just kind of keeps going and going and going.

[00:21:52] And it allows us thank goodness for it because we would

[00:21:55] never have gotten COVID had we not implemented it.

[00:21:57] Oh yeah.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:21:59] But it allows us to do everything from anywhere.

[00:22:02] Yep.

[00:22:03] And between our access to the MLS,

[00:22:07] our knowledge at the real estate market,

[00:22:10] our access, my business partner Bob up in on something with

[00:22:13] sitting realtors shout out to the second realtors.

[00:22:15] I know they're competitors of your guys,

[00:22:17] but we have access to all the,

[00:22:21] a lot of realtors there are questions.

[00:22:23] And so we can sometimes reach out to a realtor.

[00:22:26] We know works in one market or another market say,

[00:22:28] we're going to have this deal.

[00:22:29] This is what we're coming up with.

[00:22:30] What do you guys think?

[00:22:31] And some deals that we just can't figure out,

[00:22:33] we'll go and get a third party appraisal and or on deals

[00:22:35] over 500,000 prior third party appraisals across the board.

[00:22:39] One of our benefits are unique advantages that deals under half a

[00:22:42] million bucks.

[00:22:43] We don't require third party appraisals and probably 99% of those.

[00:22:46] Yeah.

[00:22:47] We're sort of doing it all ourselves.

[00:22:49] And I'm a one man loan committee.

[00:22:52] I say that with a smile because I'm not really,

[00:22:54] there's a team of us working together,

[00:22:56] but it all funnels up to me.

[00:22:58] So, you know, at this point the loan officers are

[00:23:02] gathering information, having mutual conversations kind of doing

[00:23:05] the sales pitch, giving all the information,

[00:23:07] putting the deals together.

[00:23:08] And then I meet with every single borrower before we do a final

[00:23:11] approval.

[00:23:12] Everybody across the board doesn't matter who it is.

[00:23:15] The first time and then we approve them.

[00:23:17] We, we've got the deal we have as the deal.

[00:23:19] And that kind of goes through our repeat situations.

[00:23:22] The, the deals are all being put together.

[00:23:25] All the information comps analysis, deal write ups,

[00:23:28] the whole nine yards and sort of being presented to me in

[00:23:31] the, in an organized way between me and Molly where I'm

[00:23:35] doing the final approval, but Molly's kind of my right hand

[00:23:38] on that sort of stuff.

[00:23:39] And she's great and has an amazing feel for it.

[00:23:42] And you know, we have a kind of a five person team putting

[00:23:46] the deals together.

[00:23:47] Wow.

[00:23:48] Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk

[00:23:52] co-hosts.

[00:23:53] But don't tell Sean.

[00:23:54] I hope you're enjoying this episode and I'll get right back

[00:23:57] to it in a moment.

[00:23:58] Our audience grows through word of mouth.

[00:24:00] So if you would please take a moment of your time and give

[00:24:04] us a review on the platform you're on, that would be

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[00:24:08] Please also help spread the B and R word by sharing your

[00:24:11] favorite episode with a friend.

[00:24:13] We greatly appreciate your time and trust.

[00:24:16] Now back to the show.

[00:24:18] One thing I find interesting about what you kind of just

[00:24:24] went over Jared, and that was such a really good question,

[00:24:26] Sean, is that you got to a point.

[00:24:28] So you're like, okay, 2017, not enough hours in the day.

[00:24:32] You got, you almost like hit a wall and you're like, I

[00:24:35] don't even think I could service any more business even if

[00:24:38] I tried.

[00:24:39] So then you got to the point, you're like, hey, I'm working

[00:24:42] too much in the business and now I need to be working

[00:24:44] more on the business.

[00:24:46] And this is something we talk about a lot because we've

[00:24:48] had to do that as well.

[00:24:49] It's like Sean started his company from scratch, by

[00:24:51] himself, no partners.

[00:24:53] I started Copper Hill Real Estate with two partners.

[00:24:55] So again, I had two more people to balance things

[00:24:57] off of.

[00:24:58] But no matter which way you look at it, there's

[00:25:00] never enough time because time is the most precious

[00:25:02] asset.

[00:25:03] So when you got to that point in 2017 and you realize

[00:25:06] you're like, I just don't have enough time or like, hey,

[00:25:09] I'm taking time away from my family or I'm too stressed

[00:25:11] out.

[00:25:12] I'm not getting sleep, whatever it was.

[00:25:14] How did you go about working on the business?

[00:25:17] Like did that kind of come from like you and Bob,

[00:25:19] like putting your heads together, this is what we

[00:25:21] need?

[00:25:22] Did you kind of take charge?

[00:25:23] You're like, hey, I've been the boots on the

[00:25:24] ground.

[00:25:25] This is how we build it.

[00:25:26] This is how we scale it.

[00:25:27] Like how did that happen?

[00:25:29] So, so I, I'm like to tell you guys, I was

[00:25:32] fortunate that I had a foundation to build off of.

[00:25:35] And so I don't take that for granted for a day.

[00:25:39] And, you know, Bob and I worked together on it.

[00:25:43] I mean, he sort of acted as the chairman or, you

[00:25:46] know, my mentor and would give me guidance, a

[00:25:48] lot of input.

[00:25:50] But a lot of this stuff was, you know, me talking

[00:25:54] to my friends in the business community and bouncing

[00:25:58] things off of people and just kind of using

[00:26:00] intuition and instincts and, you know, trying out

[00:26:05] some things and seeing what works and doesn't, you

[00:26:08] know, not working, reading a lot, watching things on

[00:26:11] TV, trying to get a feel for how this all gets

[00:26:14] done.

[00:26:15] You know, I didn't know this isn't where I thought

[00:26:18] it would be.

[00:26:19] It just sort of happened.

[00:26:20] And then when I got into it, I was like, oh wow,

[00:26:22] this is pretty cool.

[00:26:23] And I think I can make something out of all this.

[00:26:25] But at the end of the day, you know, all, all

[00:26:28] that kind of grit and grind that I brought to the

[00:26:31] table, I was lucky again.

[00:26:34] I can't stress.

[00:26:35] I was lucky.

[00:26:36] I had a foundation and I had a mentor.

[00:26:38] I had a guy who believed in me and knew what he was

[00:26:41] doing.

[00:26:42] And brilliant guy and he believed in me and he,

[00:26:46] you know, let me do my thing while supporting

[00:26:49] me and while providing a lot of input and for

[00:26:51] and doing a lot of stuff himself.

[00:26:53] I mean, by no stretch of the imagination was,

[00:26:55] you know, was he sitting in Florida somewhere

[00:26:57] and I was doing all the work.

[00:26:58] He was drowning away too.

[00:26:59] He was right there.

[00:27:00] So, yeah.

[00:27:01] That's awesome, man.

[00:27:03] Yeah.

[00:27:04] I mean, it's not, it's not an easy thing to do.

[00:27:06] And we've both been through it.

[00:27:07] So like, you know, Sean's business, I feel like it's

[00:27:11] a little bit more office centric being in insurance.

[00:27:13] Like you're getting stuff done, like in an office.

[00:27:15] Whereas like my business is more, is more boots on

[00:27:18] the ground.

[00:27:19] Like, you know, you mean investor client.

[00:27:21] They're like, hey, I got 15 rentals and I want

[00:27:23] you to list them and I want you to like run

[00:27:25] the tenants through.

[00:27:26] And it's like, yo, you have any idea how much legwork

[00:27:29] that is like in person, the appointments being stood up,

[00:27:33] the applications charging people, then the leases.

[00:27:36] And that's not even, they haven't moved in yet.

[00:27:38] You know, so you know that property management is like

[00:27:42] insanely people heavy.

[00:27:45] So, so, so meanwhile, while we're building direct mortgage loan

[00:27:49] company, we're also building and operating health and

[00:27:52] properties, which is the sort of the property management

[00:27:55] side of it.

[00:27:56] And what was that?

[00:27:58] I imagine a room and you coming into Bob's,

[00:28:02] Bob, Bob, we're not going to see an idea.

[00:28:05] All our extra time.

[00:28:07] We're going to do property, man.

[00:28:09] Let's do this.

[00:28:10] How'd that go down?

[00:28:11] Yeah.

[00:28:12] So property management was there.

[00:28:14] It was like, you know, a couple hundred units.

[00:28:16] Bob owned a bunch of stuff and then managed some smaller

[00:28:20] properties for other people in the community.

[00:28:22] And, you know, I wanted to develop.

[00:28:27] I wanted to own real estate, own a bit of long-term wealth

[00:28:29] and he was like, go do it.

[00:28:31] And so he, you know, I went out.

[00:28:34] I, you know, we've developed a couple hundred units or

[00:28:38] 250, 200 years, whatever the number is,

[00:28:40] I don't even know to be honest with you.

[00:28:42] A bunch of apartment buildings, some small mix use

[00:28:44] multifamily.

[00:28:47] And then direct sort of was blossoming.

[00:28:51] Yeah, they're kind of going parallel paths and direct.

[00:28:55] What like this?

[00:28:56] And I decided to slow this down at the same time because I

[00:28:59] needed my time more on the finance side on direct mortgage.

[00:29:05] But we didn't lose focus and we re-branded and got great

[00:29:08] people on the property management side and I'm involved on a,

[00:29:12] maybe not every day all day long,

[00:29:14] but certainly having weekly meetings going with rental teams and

[00:29:17] collections and strategy meetings and all that sort of stuff.

[00:29:22] And it's a nice piece to the business.

[00:29:25] I don't know if it's, you know, I don't know if it's the most

[00:29:32] fun business in the world to be in, but it's where we are.

[00:29:35] It sort of was there.

[00:29:37] We embraced it.

[00:29:40] And to your point, you know, it's hard work that there's tenant

[00:29:45] relations.

[00:29:46] There's a lot of paperwork.

[00:29:48] It's all on spec.

[00:29:50] You don't get paid until you close the deal.

[00:29:54] And so it can be a grind, but sort of fits in with who we are.

[00:29:58] And you know, it is what it is.

[00:30:00] And I think we're pretty happy with sort of the combination of

[00:30:03] those two businesses running.

[00:30:05] How did COVID affect the property management side?

[00:30:09] Was it, you know, more chasing to get people to pay and all of

[00:30:13] that, or was it more steady as she goes?

[00:30:17] You know, at first it was pretty scary.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:21] Everything was scary.

[00:30:22] I remember sitting in my house thinking I was going to be

[00:30:25] fighting for bankruptcy.

[00:30:26] You know, it's like everything's going to fall apart.

[00:30:28] This is going to be crazy.

[00:30:29] Guys falling.

[00:30:30] Yeah.

[00:30:31] And you know, it's like, you know, we're all going to fall.

[00:30:34] You know, whatever.

[00:30:35] And, you know, none of that happened.

[00:30:37] It wasn't even close to any of that happening, but it was this

[00:30:40] all the thoughts were going through all of our moments.

[00:30:42] You know, everybody I'm just one small piece of you guys

[00:30:45] had the same thoughts going through your months.

[00:30:47] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:49] To answer your question, it took some time to sort of figure

[00:30:53] out the processes and figure out how to make things work.

[00:30:57] But I've got really great people on the property management

[00:31:00] side.

[00:31:01] And I've got really great people in my accounting department,

[00:31:04] really great people direct mortgage and everybody sort of

[00:31:07] stepped up and said, well, we will figure out what we got to do.

[00:31:10] And we all started figuring out what the zoom thing was and

[00:31:13] what Google meets were and how does this work.

[00:31:15] And let's get together.

[00:31:16] And we were, you know, just like everybody else who can get

[00:31:19] rotations in and out of the office and how does the

[00:31:23] paperwork, you know, how does paperwork on the property

[00:31:25] management side work?

[00:31:26] How does paperwork on the mortgage side work?

[00:31:28] How do we get the bills paid?

[00:31:29] How do we get checks on all this sort of stuff?

[00:31:31] And all came together amazingly quickly because I think,

[00:31:35] I think as most people out there who are in business

[00:31:38] realize it's like, it's feast or famine.

[00:31:41] Like we had no choice.

[00:31:42] You had to figure out how to figure out really, do or die.

[00:31:45] You had to figure it out.

[00:31:46] You had to figure out really quickly and you did.

[00:31:48] It's had no other option.

[00:31:49] Yeah.

[00:31:50] No, that's great.

[00:31:52] One thing on your website that I picked up on,

[00:31:55] because I do some research as I've told you before.

[00:31:57] Yep.

[00:31:58] It's usually, you know, Craigslist, Google, LinkedIn, LinkedIn,

[00:32:02] you know, all the crazy stuff.

[00:32:05] Right?

[00:32:06] What did you find?

[00:32:07] Tell us.

[00:32:08] So one thing I saw on your website that I thought was cool

[00:32:10] is that your philosophy for direct mortgage loan companies

[00:32:12] that your relationship lender and I'm fine sharing this

[00:32:15] with the audience.

[00:32:16] So we work together.

[00:32:17] So we do flips.

[00:32:18] Our development group has worked with you guys on

[00:32:20] countless occasions.

[00:32:21] You guys are unbelievable.

[00:32:22] It's part of the reason why we're chatting today

[00:32:24] and I wanted you to share some more about your company.

[00:32:26] But John and I also built our businesses the same way in that,

[00:32:30] you know, we've never really looked at things transactionally.

[00:32:33] We've always looked at things that's more about getting

[00:32:35] to know people, you know, treat them right, customer service,

[00:32:38] follow through introducing people to other people,

[00:32:41] providing opportunity, like whatever it is,

[00:32:44] building a relationship through business.

[00:32:46] Because if you build that relationship and you

[00:32:48] cultivate it over time, you build a lot of trust.

[00:32:51] And then if you have a lot of trust, like you said,

[00:32:54] they're not going to put you and two other people on a spreadsheet

[00:32:56] and go, hmm, who should I go with this month?

[00:32:59] They're going to be like, no, like here's my avenue for

[00:33:02] private lending when I have this need.

[00:33:04] And it's Jared and direct mortgage.

[00:33:06] So talk a little bit about why you guys,

[00:33:08] your philosophy is more like relationship based.

[00:33:10] It's like similar to us.

[00:33:12] So, so relationship based is different to me, I think

[00:33:17] than it is to a lot of other people out there.

[00:33:19] Everybody says the relationship based doesn't matter if they're

[00:33:22] a plumber, a banker, a restaurant, everybody's website.

[00:33:25] Everybody's motto relates to relationship.

[00:33:28] This is, you know, I'm not the,

[00:33:30] I'm not the guy who's interested in going to happy hour.

[00:33:33] I'm not going to grab a beer with you.

[00:33:35] I don't really want to waste our time grabbing lunch.

[00:33:38] I'll do it here and there in certain situations,

[00:33:40] but I'm not spending time in the morning with coffee.

[00:33:43] You know, I don't want to go on vacation with your family.

[00:33:47] I want to use all that time that I'm saving,

[00:33:50] not doing all of those things,

[00:33:52] busting my butt to get deals closed for people and repeating

[00:33:57] that over and over and over again so that when you guys

[00:34:00] reach out to me or anybody reaches out to me or anyone on

[00:34:02] my team, we can respond like that to them.

[00:34:04] And because, so I'm not at someone's lunch waiting an hour

[00:34:07] to get finished my Caesar salad to then respond to

[00:34:09] somebody who needs to close the deal.

[00:34:11] I want to be at my computer or on the road by my phone

[00:34:14] and be able to repeat, repeat, repeat.

[00:34:16] And so that's the relationship that I provide that I think

[00:34:19] is different than most other people who sell relationship.

[00:34:23] And that I stress that to my team that I've said this before

[00:34:27] and may have heard this before.

[00:34:28] You know, communicate, communicate, communicate.

[00:34:30] Yeah.

[00:34:31] You know, keep it easy for everybody and be available.

[00:34:34] Don't waste your time on, and it's not a waste.

[00:34:37] I get there's value in all of those other things depending

[00:34:39] on the business somebody is in.

[00:34:41] But for me, I built my business on being, on not wasting my

[00:34:46] time the way I see it anyway on those ancillary kind of

[00:34:50] meal type things where people are, I get invited to a lot

[00:34:55] of events, a lot of happy hours.

[00:34:56] I say no game, basketball games you want to come to

[00:34:59] my box?

[00:35:00] You want to do this one?

[00:35:01] Do that?

[00:35:02] No, no, thank you.

[00:35:03] I really appreciate the offers really, but I just can't,

[00:35:06] I can't fit it in.

[00:35:07] I'm sorry.

[00:35:08] Well, I think it's building relationships.

[00:35:09] You can do it in a couple of different ways.

[00:35:11] You know, you can be the person that's out there and

[00:35:14] shmoosin' it up.

[00:35:15] Yeah, you're always at the happy hours in the basketball

[00:35:17] games.

[00:35:18] I'm always at the happy hours.

[00:35:19] You're always having a good time.

[00:35:20] Always.

[00:35:21] Or you can really build relationships by delivering

[00:35:25] for your clients.

[00:35:26] And by delivering for your clients, they're going

[00:35:29] to, number one, use you more.

[00:35:32] And they're also going to tell their investor friends,

[00:35:36] hey, you know, these guys were absolutely wonderful to

[00:35:40] deal with.

[00:35:41] I can't recommend them enough.

[00:35:43] And so I think building relationships kind of to your

[00:35:46] point, Jared, isn't like a one track way of doing

[00:35:50] business.

[00:35:51] It's like you can be intentional about having an

[00:35:56] absolute mindset of delivering every single time and

[00:36:02] that breeds new business and repeat business.

[00:36:06] That's it.

[00:36:07] 100%

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:09] And like you said, there's no right or wrong way.

[00:36:11] Different ways work for different people and different

[00:36:13] businesses.

[00:36:14] For me, the way I've done it has worked for me.

[00:36:16] And I think there's a combination too.

[00:36:18] Like sort of how you were made.

[00:36:20] Yeah, how you're wired.

[00:36:22] How you're wired.

[00:36:23] Like I'm wired to constantly be making people happy

[00:36:27] by closing deals and creating energy and figuring

[00:36:30] out how to make this one work when somebody else

[00:36:32] couldn't make it work.

[00:36:34] And that constant back and forth drives me.

[00:36:38] And I don't get that in a restaurant somewhere having

[00:36:40] to have you out.

[00:36:41] So for me, it just naturally works out that way.

[00:36:44] I'm very similar in that way as I am.

[00:36:48] You are kind of like that.

[00:36:50] More so, I should say.

[00:36:51] I'm a little bit more.

[00:36:53] I'm a little bit more.

[00:36:54] Do you like to do all the things?

[00:36:56] I like to hang out, like to get coffee, shaking

[00:36:58] hands, you know, kiss some babies.

[00:37:00] I am the guy that's in the office.

[00:37:02] And you know, I am trying to like figure out like

[00:37:06] because we get weird stuff.

[00:37:08] Can you ensure this?

[00:37:09] Can you do that?

[00:37:10] And it's like, I don't know.

[00:37:12] Can I and my time is best spent is like trying

[00:37:15] to figure out the best product, the best way

[00:37:18] to ensure a specific thing.

[00:37:20] And that's what I enjoy more so than.

[00:37:24] And the basketball games and the basketball games.

[00:37:27] All right.

[00:37:29] So I go basketball games too, by the way.

[00:37:31] I'm just taking my kids with me because that's exactly how I

[00:37:34] I don't want to go with my clients.

[00:37:36] I love my clients, but I want my kids.

[00:37:38] Well, you know, you're everyone has to have a certain level

[00:37:41] of balance.

[00:37:42] So and it's like an every single person is different.

[00:37:44] Some people are like, Hey, my balance is that, you know,

[00:37:47] my social life is my work life.

[00:37:49] Like there's lots of people who balance it that way.

[00:37:51] And there's other people that are more like either like,

[00:37:53] you know what?

[00:37:54] My social life and my work life are kind of separate.

[00:37:56] Like I put all my time and energy and strength

[00:37:59] and like intelligence and everything I got into my business

[00:38:03] when I'm doing it.

[00:38:04] But then when I'm allowed to kind of turn that off a little bit,

[00:38:07] I mean, it's never really off.

[00:38:08] But if you can kind of like put that in second place

[00:38:11] and then put your family in first place.

[00:38:14] And I'm very much like this, like with a lot of like

[00:38:16] my morning routine with my daughter, I'm very much like

[00:38:19] that's like no one's going to take that time away from me

[00:38:21] and my entire schedule and everything I do in my days

[00:38:24] based on that, like that's first place,

[00:38:26] everything else is second.

[00:38:27] But as soon as I'm going to where I'm going, you know,

[00:38:31] having coffee, crushing beers.

[00:38:34] Right.

[00:38:35] When I'm going where I'm going, I'm completely focused on that.

[00:38:38] So, you know, I'm trying not to let my family stuff interfere

[00:38:41] with the fact that I'm spending face to face time

[00:38:43] with clients and building rapport

[00:38:45] and introducing them to other people.

[00:38:47] I've always been a good connector.

[00:38:49] That's part of my value in the relationship based model.

[00:38:52] I'm very good at seeing this person,

[00:38:55] I think would find value in this person.

[00:38:58] So I'll constantly connect people.

[00:39:00] I'm like, I think you should talk to this person

[00:39:02] because of this reason and then vice versa

[00:39:04] and then even putting people together.

[00:39:06] Which again, if connecting is your thing,

[00:39:08] a lot of that is done in person

[00:39:10] and it actually brings me to my next point.

[00:39:12] Another thing I thought on your website was awesome

[00:39:14] is that you talk about feet on the street.

[00:39:16] And, you know, so you have a team of eight people

[00:39:21] that's what I saw.

[00:39:23] What do you love about managing and leading people?

[00:39:27] So you were doing everything yourself,

[00:39:29] you know, not that long ago.

[00:39:31] Then you sat down, you got together with Bob,

[00:39:34] you put the right people in place,

[00:39:35] you got Salesforce, you're staying organized,

[00:39:37] you're staying lean, efficient.

[00:39:39] Like, what do you love about leading the charge now?

[00:39:43] Because you've got a group of people

[00:39:44] that are looking to you every day.

[00:39:46] So we actually have, not that this is that important,

[00:39:50] but we have about 22 full-time employees right now.

[00:39:53] And I think there's a couple of people on Direct Mortgage

[00:39:56] that aren't actually on the website for reasons,

[00:39:59] just whatever reasons.

[00:40:01] So I think Direct has about 10 people

[00:40:03] focusing just on Direct Mortgage, including myself.

[00:40:07] So, you know, it started out as basically two people.

[00:40:11] So, you know, it's not like we grew it to 100 employees.

[00:40:15] Yeah, but that's super impressive, man.

[00:40:18] And so, you know, the people are what make, you know,

[00:40:27] the vision is the vision.

[00:40:29] Yeah, the business is the business.

[00:40:32] But, you know, we've hired really good people.

[00:40:36] And those people have sort of allowed us to kind of follow

[00:40:42] through with the vision and, you know,

[00:40:47] grow the company, find new business,

[00:40:50] be innovative as much as we can

[00:40:52] and sort of do our thing.

[00:40:54] It makes me, when I hear a fee on the street,

[00:40:59] it makes me think like you having that you've done

[00:41:03] all the deals, you know the people

[00:41:05] that are in the right spots.

[00:41:08] It's almost like you have a pulse.

[00:41:10] Like you got a pulse on what's going on.

[00:41:12] Yes, I didn't really answer you

[00:41:14] on the street.

[00:41:15] So, if you're on the street,

[00:41:16] the idea behind that is we're out there.

[00:41:18] You know, we're literally pounding the pavement.

[00:41:20] Yeah.

[00:41:21] You know, we're not showing up in a fancy BMW or Porsche.

[00:41:24] We're not showing up with our loafers and a suit and a tie.

[00:41:27] We're climbing the ladders.

[00:41:29] We're getting into job sites.

[00:41:30] We're getting on the roofs if we have to,

[00:41:33] although trying to limit that as much as I can.

[00:41:36] But we're out there.

[00:41:38] We're block to block.

[00:41:39] We know it.

[00:41:40] I used to do this all myself.

[00:41:42] I used to do this all myself.

[00:41:44] I used to do this all myself.

[00:41:46] I used to do this all myself.

[00:41:48] Like I've said, I'm a little bit less out there than I used to be,

[00:41:51] but I still try to get out there and drive the neighbors and

[00:41:54] get out to some draw inspections and that sort of thing.

[00:41:57] But that's where the feet on the street just means we're not

[00:42:00] in an office.

[00:42:01] We're out there.

[00:42:02] You know, take your computers,

[00:42:04] guys put in your car,

[00:42:06] book it up to your, you know,

[00:42:08] your phones and do a little work in between draw inspections,

[00:42:11] and then we tend like, you know, we're experts from an office.

[00:42:15] Yeah.

[00:42:16] Now some of the things that I also saw when,

[00:42:18] because we asked a couple of questions before we interviewed

[00:42:20] people is that, you know,

[00:42:22] some of the things that you love about business that you

[00:42:24] mentioned were like kind of like the energy that's created,

[00:42:26] which you've already kind of gone over like the everyday

[00:42:28] challenges, like challenges obviously like motivate you

[00:42:31] solving problems, watching people grow.

[00:42:34] So now that you are leading the charge of two really

[00:42:38] nice sized companies, super impressive.

[00:42:41] Like what gets you excited?

[00:42:43] You wake up, you know,

[00:42:44] you're doing stuff with your family in the morning.

[00:42:46] What gets you juiced up every day to go out and make it better?

[00:42:50] Like it sounds like you have a lot of focus now on the

[00:42:53] direct mortgage piece, not that you don't on the other company,

[00:42:56] but like it sounds like you really focus on that.

[00:42:58] Like how do I grow this to a way?

[00:43:00] I don't want it to be like 10 times as large as we are,

[00:43:03] but I want it to be larger.

[00:43:04] I want it to be more efficient.

[00:43:05] I want to meet more people who need our services.

[00:43:07] They're just like the people we already work with.

[00:43:09] So what gets you out of bed with your business?

[00:43:12] Well, there's a few things I'm not,

[00:43:14] I don't think it's there's no straight line to that.

[00:43:16] I think that the, I love working with my team.

[00:43:21] I love the people at the organization.

[00:43:24] I love being able to go sit with my proper management folks

[00:43:28] and brainstorm and work on challenges and then go to,

[00:43:32] you know, the mortgage team,

[00:43:33] but kind of bounce around and I never quite know what's

[00:43:36] happening and what's coming up.

[00:43:38] And I like the interaction and the relationships with those people.

[00:43:42] And I think that sort of knowing that, you know,

[00:43:47] the business is creating a livelihood for all those people,

[00:43:51] creating balance for people,

[00:43:53] creating a foundation for people's lives,

[00:43:55] all that sort of stuff.

[00:43:57] Certainly that fear of failure drives me

[00:44:02] and gets me going every single day.

[00:44:04] Failure for myself, but also failure that I would let them down in some way

[00:44:08] and want to be able to keep the company to support them and all that sort of stuff.

[00:44:12] So I think that's number one above all.

[00:44:15] My wife, that's not this is not the first time I've ever said that my wife's

[00:44:19] certainly say that like the fear of failure is a driving force in my life

[00:44:23] for good or for bad.

[00:44:25] And aside from that, you know,

[00:44:30] I really enjoy seeing on the mortgage side.

[00:44:32] I really enjoy seeing our clients succeed.

[00:44:35] Bob, Bob Elfan said to me very, very early on in my career

[00:44:41] and it's sort of been a theme between us forever.

[00:44:44] You know, we are only successful if our clients are successful.

[00:44:48] If our clients are making money, we'll make money.

[00:44:51] But if we're the only ones making money, it's not good for business.

[00:44:54] Everybody's got to be doing that.

[00:44:56] And so it's really, really fun for lack of a better term.

[00:45:01] Rewarding to see a client have a successful deal, make some money.

[00:45:07] That's what they're doing it for mostly.

[00:45:09] And so that's really great.

[00:45:12] And I also get a rush out of the deal separate and aside from that.

[00:45:15] I get a rush close, you know, seeing a loan flows,

[00:45:19] getting that email that says loan closed through their pipeline,

[00:45:22] you know, makes a smile mark.

[00:45:24] They see my monthly reports to the smile mark.

[00:45:26] I mean, you know, sort of that piece of it certainly is exciting.

[00:45:32] And then I think probably, you know, if I was to say one other thing

[00:45:36] is to see the growth of the people within my company.

[00:45:41] You know, they know who they are, but to see people sort of,

[00:45:45] you know, what are the mentalities of my hiring practices?

[00:45:48] And I think you guys can, my guess is would have the exact same experiences

[00:45:52] as small business owners.

[00:45:55] I don't look for specialists when I hire.

[00:45:57] I sort of look for smart people.

[00:46:00] I don't care.

[00:46:01] I actually don't want them to know anything like a blank slate.

[00:46:04] Yeah, I'll teach them everything they didn't know.

[00:46:07] I just want someone that's going to be loyal.

[00:46:08] Someone that's going to be hard working, someone that's smart.

[00:46:10] The rest of it will figure out.

[00:46:11] Give me give me 12 months with them is sort of the mentality.

[00:46:14] And we've got, you know, at three, maybe four people on our current 22

[00:46:20] person team started out as a receptionist and have grown throughout

[00:46:23] the company.

[00:46:24] And watching those people grow is as rewarding a thing as I can

[00:46:29] imagine.

[00:46:30] So that's probably it.

[00:46:32] Hopefully I didn't over talk myself on that.

[00:46:34] Those are some answers.

[00:46:35] I always say that it's sometimes it's a detriment, you know,

[00:46:38] you get a person that is established or the X amount of years

[00:46:42] of prior experience doing this or that.

[00:46:45] And it's just a lot of times they're just bringing what

[00:46:49] they know that can be applicable, but sometimes a lot of hard

[00:46:54] to retrain sometimes.

[00:46:55] Yeah.

[00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:57] I agree.

[00:46:58] All right.

[00:46:59] Last one we got for you, man.

[00:47:00] We're big quote guys.

[00:47:01] We love quotes.

[00:47:03] Most people do.

[00:47:04] Is there a quote or any quotes that you really enjoy live

[00:47:09] by that you remember?

[00:47:14] So I'm not a huge quote guy.

[00:47:17] I don't specifically quote things in that way,

[00:47:20] but there are a few things that I say over and over and over again.

[00:47:23] Communicate, communicate, communicate.

[00:47:26] Yeah.

[00:47:27] Right.

[00:47:28] What are the things people can be saying all the time is what

[00:47:33] I said a few minutes ago about, you know, don't waste your time.

[00:47:37] You know, I'm not the guy that's going to waste the time grabbing

[00:47:39] a beer with you.

[00:47:40] You want to be my friend.

[00:47:41] I'm not the right number for you if you want good service.

[00:47:44] You want the speed.

[00:47:45] You want, you know, all of that.

[00:47:47] And we talked about, I'm right here and I can get you on that.

[00:47:50] And I, I, I quote that to my team over and over and over again.

[00:47:55] And I say that when I'm all phone calls with people, it's not a

[00:47:58] quote, but it's the same thing of something I will say.

[00:48:01] Yeah.

[00:48:02] And the other, one of the other things I say a lot is, you

[00:48:06] know, they, back to the sort of, you can't put it on a

[00:48:09] cell spreadsheet.

[00:48:10] Like I, I believe that so strongly.

[00:48:14] I like to say that we do a lot of little things that add up to

[00:48:19] make a really, really big difference.

[00:48:22] And those little things cannot be viewed on the Excel spreadsheet

[00:48:25] that I was speaking about.

[00:48:27] And if we're not doing those little things, we're just

[00:48:30] another lender.

[00:48:31] And there's lots of letters, like we said, doing, you know,

[00:48:36] you know, saying we're fast saying, you know, our rates

[00:48:39] less, our fees less, our, this is, you know, all the,

[00:48:43] all the selling points.

[00:48:44] And I can say all those two and they, and most of them are true

[00:48:47] and most, and all of them would be true.

[00:48:50] But it's almost the little things that you don't know until

[00:48:54] you, until you know, you know what I mean?

[00:48:56] Yeah.

[00:48:57] Or they've experienced or that person has experienced with

[00:49:00] another lender where it was like, Oh man, this has been

[00:49:05] a total nightmare.

[00:49:06] They gave him to you and say, Oh my God, Jared, this was

[00:49:09] like a breeze.

[00:49:10] You did this.

[00:49:11] You know, sometimes you almost need that proof of them to

[00:49:14] like go through it.

[00:49:16] Yep.

[00:49:17] And experience that so they know and they know your value.

[00:49:21] So good.

[00:49:22] Yeah, we all see that a lot of clients are people that you

[00:49:25] talk to, they went with the cheaper alternative and then

[00:49:28] they come back to you for one reason or another.

[00:49:30] One of the things we kind of coach our loan officers on

[00:49:34] all the time is sort of, you know, you got to listen

[00:49:37] to what the client's saying, what the prospect's saying.

[00:49:40] You know, hear what their complaints are or what their,

[00:49:43] you know, their pain points are in other situations and then

[00:49:46] tell them how we can fix that pain point.

[00:49:48] Don't set, don't, we don't always have to sell them on our

[00:49:51] advantages of what we do best.

[00:49:53] Let's sell them on what their, what their pain point is and

[00:49:56] how we can help them with their pain point.

[00:49:58] All the rest will fall into place and every,

[00:50:00] every sales pitch and sort of every interaction with the

[00:50:02] client or prospect is different.

[00:50:04] So you have to be ready and nimble, but that's

[00:50:07] certainly to your point is really a good way of going about it

[00:50:11] and the way to do success with it.

[00:50:14] Totally, that's great.

[00:50:15] Well, we're going to close it out with that one folks.

[00:50:18] So thank you for tuning in again to another episode of

[00:50:21] Bricks and Risk.

[00:50:23] See you soon.

[00:50:26] Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks

[00:50:29] and Risk.

[00:50:30] Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable

[00:50:33] nuggets and we greatly appreciate you sharing your

[00:50:36] time with us today.

[00:50:38] You can find all B&R episodes on Spotify,

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[00:50:44] podcast content.

[00:50:46] Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.