Hey, What Gives? Why Are My Clients Not Giving Me Referrals? | Episode 104

And perception is reality. It's like if people perceive you to be the agent of choice, because you're just talking about it all the time, they're gonna say, Hey, Tim knows what he's doing. Sean knows what he's doing. Joe Stump knows what he's doing. They're gonna think that.

Man, Sean must be a really good insurance agent if he has his own podcast. He ain't lying.

Sean must be really good at insurance if he switches out mustaches from beards from clean shaven every other week.

Sean must be really good at eBaying. I've seen his work on the podcast. Front and center.

The entire outfit. Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance, and building your business. Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

This episode is brought to you by Property Management Redefined. PMR is not just managing properties, we're creating partnerships that build long-term success for property owners. John and his team can be reached at manage at goPMR.com or by phone 267-753-6005. Tim. Yes, Sean. Who's a good client for PMR?

Property management redefined is looking for property owners who value three things accountability, reliability, and a results-driven approach. They want to maximize returns, but still provide client and tenant satisfaction.

There's a lot of property managers out there.

Yes, there are. What does PMR do really well? Biggest thing is they're seamless and they're worry-free. So with that approach in mind, it allows the property owner to put their trust in PMR and know that the results will be there. The other thing I think a property owner is really going to value because they do it so well is that they have a local expert team, boots on the ground, managing your properties and your tenants' expectations every day so that you feel good about your investments.

We have millions of listeners out there. Tens of millions. If they want more information, how do they find PMR?

Right here, guys. Reach out to John Sachs and his team at Property Management Redefine. We'll take good care of you. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Timmy G. And I'm Sean Mooney. Do you remember in the beginning when we had Bricks and Risk on Buzz Sprout, we actually said it was a podcast by Sean P and Timmy G.

Uh, I think it was actually the title of the show. No, that was the Tim and Sean show. That was Tim and Sean show. But like if you look Oh, yeah, the authors of the show.

If you looked at the authors of the show on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, it said Sean P and Timmy G. Yeah. And then I think one day I woke up and you had changed it and you're like, all right, joke's over. It's by Sean Patrick Mooney the first and Timothy Michael Gardy the first.

Yeah.

Okay. Cool. Seemed more appropriate. All right. What are we talking about on this one?

Before we hop in. Oh, yeah. All the friendly subs all the friendly non-subscribers.

Anyone who's listening to watch on YouTube, but have yet to hit the red subscribe button. That's what you're talking about.

We're trying to bring them in, bring that number up. It helps the show, it helps our reach. So if you'd be so kind, just click away.

Here's what I'll say on that. Because I hate just saying please subscribe because we would love you to. Here's why I love subscribing to podcasts and I'm always subscribing to new ones. When you go on the app, if you just go to like where your subscriptions are, you just scroll on the top. So if you like five shows or ten shows or 50 shows, subscribing is so much better. It's also better on your on your homepage because it usually puts the shorts of the podcasts you like. So if you like to just scroll, it's better for scrolling and it's better for finding. Two tips. Hit it up. All right. What we do in this one. This one's real estate related.

We're going all in on real estate today. Okay. What are we talking about? So I think uh the way you would set it up uh for today's topic was that um a real estate professional who got some advice uh about how he should be or how she should be really marketing themselves, trying to get their name out there to grow their business. And they're doing some of those things, and it's just not converting the way that they expect it to. It's not working. It's not working. So they're doing the work, they're they're sending the emails or the cards, they're doing the things that they're told will be fruitful for them, and they're not getting what they want out of it.

So everyone here understands my level of experience with this scenario, and here's how I worded it. I'm an agent. Let's say I'm new, year one, year two, even year four, it doesn't matter. I sent them a signed letter, I emailed them a home valuation update, and gave them dinner and drinks at a client event. Where are my referrals? It's supposed to work. Now, now, now.

Now, now.

So, my experience level with this, I was uh I led an office at U.S. Spaces. They had a couple offices, so I was doing some training mentoring, you know, probably my fourth, fifth year.

Yep.

Got a broker's license and I started Copper Hill. I trained and mentored agents for 10 years at Copper Hill. Now at the Tim Garratty team, I do training and mentoring through my team members, but also through Zoom training, people at Real, people at Realtor Associations, lots of different things. So I have been through lots of agent trainings, especially with people who are looking for like validation, advice, they want a vent, whatever it is, they're having trouble. And it's I that's why I wanted to title this one this. It's really just I've done A, I've done B, I've done C. You said if I do A, B, and C, I'm gonna get referrals. Hey, Tim told me to do an annual letter at the beginning of the year. Hey, uh another person on a real estate podcast told me I should be sending a home valuation update through email. Uh email buys. Yeah, a show I watched on YouTube says do client events. Because if you do client events, you're gonna get referrals. Where are the referrals? Yep. So here's the first thing I'd like to go over, which we'll get this one started. Is don't just don't just cross things off your list and wait. What are you doing next? So here's the example I'll give. You got A, B, C. Don't just say, I did the letter, I sent the home valuation email, and I held the client event. Come on, it's business. Now it's gonna rain. Come on, business.

Poor referrals.

So we talk about this all the time. Trial and error. Trying things. You always have to be trying things, not only in my business, but in your business. I'm 15 years into my real estate career. I'm still trying things. I try things on social media, I try different email things. I just started a new email thing this year, which centers around home valuation. And you can never stop trying new things. So the point I'm gonna make there is not just it's not just about checking things off your list. It's Luke Akery has said this before on stay paid. Shout out to Luke. What's up, man? You can't have enough touch points. You can't reach out enough. Some people might disagree with that because they're like, yo, if you talk to me too much about real estate, you're kind of like a thorn on my side, so leave me the F alone. Like, why do you keep doing that?

Well, I think I think in that circumstance, it's like don't talk about real estate. Like, yeah. Make the touch point about touching or checking in or doing whatever. About meeting Ivan in the car door graveyard. Uh if that's saying aisle six, shelf twelve. If that thing was on video, it it would be the the most hilarious. It could be up to like three billion views, and you'd be a millionaire. Yeah, because like eventually I got a door, and then he he's like, Oh, I put that in there, and then he like drives me. He's going a hundred miles an hour down the street, like in an old rickety truck that had no seatbelt or anything. I don't even think the window even was working, like it was damn. Like, I'm like clutching because I'm like, oh my god.

All to save a few hundred bucks. Yeah, looking back, it's probably like, why would I do that? You know. So, like, here's here's the feedback I'll give on that. Don't just have like these two or three or five things on your list. I'm just gonna do this. Like, always be adding things to your list. Like, what's what's your personal take, insurance brokerage owner, about trying new things to build your referral base?

So the first thing I want to say with that is like if it's not working, it's not working, right? If if your message isn't landing with your recipient, you're gonna have to try. Like, if if Jim from Las Vegas, who's a real estate consultant, says, have networking events, whatever, group events, client events.

Why don't you go with Jimmy? Why'd you call him Jim? I don't know. Okay.

And you do it and no one really shows up and you don't get good feedback, that's probably not the right thing to do for your sphere of influence. Right? It's like on the other show that we talked about, and I said you need to meet the client where they're at, right? So, like some clients like to get on the phone and talk, some like email, some like text. You have to talk their language in doing it, right? So maybe the client event isn't a really good thing, but you learn from that. You you tried it, doesn't work, didn't land with your sphere. So you have to move on. You you have to find something that clicks. Uh now, what I might do with that, which is kind of moon in in thought, is that you have an event where you invite 50 people, but only five show up.

Right.

Right. You think it's a failure, but what I would do is have an event only for 10 people. Like now you now you're you're you're bringing the people in that appreciate.

Like a smaller event.

Right. So tailor it to like the people that it does land with.

Well, and here's the flip side of that. So you're talking about doing something that may or may not land with your audience. The flip side is doing something that may or may not land with you. Let's say you throw a client event. I just threw a client event. I love doing client events. That's my thing. Yeah. Someone else might do a client event and say, that was like a living hell. Like that was awful. I hated doing it. I don't like the creative email invitation. I don't like the follow-up. No one came. No one thanked me. They didn't like it. Jody. Like, seriously, some people will say, I don't like doing that. Yeah. Which is perfectly fine. Which also plays into the fact, don't just have your three things because someone else told you to do it. What are you going to do next? You know, maybe, like you had said, maybe you didn't like putting on the big event. Who's to say you don't want to just text five or ten people? You know you're going to get half of them to show up. Yeah. And say, let's just go get some beers. It's Wednesday. How about we all like beer? Why don't we go we all like Cara Cara seltzers? Why don't we go get some two robbers? We're all GF.

Yeah.

You could just do that.

Yeah.

So it also plays to the strength of the person that's doing it. Absolutely. Alright. So here's another one. If you never stop, you will build a career in real estate. What's your opinion on that? It's a very Timmy G. Yeah, and I don't I don't Timmy G philosophy.

Oh is lemon lime.

Okay. There we go. Gotcha. Two Roberts. Two Roberts lemon lime is also good, as well as Caracara.

Yeah, it'll never yeah. Lemon Lime, a good a good alternative. Okay. Although I went to liquor store the other day and they were out of everything.

Just get a bottle of soco and a bottle of lime, went home. Yeah. Took a sip of one, sip of the other. Yeah. Cool.

Um keep going, you're gonna find success. Right? Um it could be true in real estate, but I think it's much broader than that. Right? I think you I think you can't just stop because something doesn't work. If you're gonna be successful in business, you have to be able to keep going. You have to be able to find the next thing.

Yep.

Uh or you might go through three things that don't land, right? But it's always like we talked about constantly tweaking, constantly adjusting, making those adjustments to find success in business.

Yep.

And eventually, if you keep doing it, you're gonna find success at some point. And then at that point, you can double down on that and take your business to a different level.

Yeah, the reason I say if you never stop, you will build a career is really in just like the peaks and the valleys. So again, you're gonna have a good year. It could be early on, it could be five years in, and you're like, this is awesome. And then the next year it kind of falls off a little bit. Yeah, and you're like, why? It's not always necessarily your fault. Sometimes it's the timing of your network, sometimes it's the timing of the market, sometimes it's you're not doing enough marketing. That marketing you had had a ceiling to it. Now it's time to break through the ceiling with something else, find another way. So that's one example. And then I'll also give the example of personally like me trying things that I absolutely hated. For me, number one, I've said this many times cold calling, cold leads. I don't think I've ever heard you say that. Getting cold leads from somewhere, and I've I've also shame shamefully done this in recruiting real estate at Copper Hill. Someone had said, you know, give that a try. And I'm like, you know what? I'm always willing to try everything. And I did that, and I'm like, I absolutely hate this. It's just not my thing. Some people thrive off the phone, and people they don't know for lots of different reasons. That's fine. That's just not my personality. So I have tried that, spent money on it, spent time on it, and said, I don't want to do that anymore. So I stopped doing it. And then I've also, uh, in the last couple years, I send out the Reminder Media magazine. Shout out to Reminder Media. I send that out to people in my network. I absolutely love doing that. I've gotten compliments. I like the act of doing it. I like the time spent. I don't mind the cost. I like the return. I like the response. The whole thing just works for me. That works for me, but I have met other people in my career who have done the magazine and said I stopped doing it. I said, why? And they're like, I didn't see any results. That's fine. That that happens too.

Yeah. Well, there's different measuring sticks too. Yeah. Right? So, like, it's funny to me how for you it may work because you get people texting you, oh, you know, or you love it. You go to their house, or you go to Brian's shop, you know, at the car shop, and you walk in and your magazine's on the table. Or shout out to Fountain Street Auto. Fountain Street Auto. My boy Brian. He's amazing. Um stuff like that, that like you're seeing that as value, and you that's your measuring stick for why you do it and and the and the response that you get. It's funny to me how the same the the same could be said for someone else. They'd be like, Yeah, like all these people text me, and someone posted my my recipe on Facebook and tagged me, and and that's cool, but they worked with another agent. Or like, I didn't, they didn't nobody sent me referrals this month after I sent the the magazine. So their measuring stick is purely, did I get any business by sending this magazine? Yep. And that's really not shouldn't be the intent, but but if some people view it as I spend $750 to spend this money to send the magazine, I want at least dollar for dollar back on new business.

Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host. But don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth, so if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now, back to the show. So I was just a guest, very humbled to always be a guest on someone else's podcast. Be the solution podcast, Maria Quattro. Oh, yeah, Maria. Shout out to Maria. She does a great job. And um one thing we focused on during the podcast was consistency. Yeah. That's that's a thing I've been strong with. Yeah. That that's a skill set I feel like I have, I've stuck with 15 years, I don't let up.

Oh, wait, that was the uh that was the socks episode.

Yes.

Oh yeah.

And we were talking about my monthly email newsletter in the podcast and saying I've maybe missed a month or two. I know I've missed a month at Copper Hill. It might only be one month in 15 years. Yeah. But I She was like, whoa, 15 years. Well, and the ironic part was the reason I was even on the podcast is she replied to my September newsletter and said, How are you? It's been a while. Would you like to come on? Very cool. So that is an example of just the reason where it's like, where are my referrals? I look at it as like, I'm just never stopping. I'm not gonna stop doing it. Maybe at some point, like email goes away.

Totally possible. Maybe there's an AI box generate your newsletters.

Or I'll send my robot to your house and he will verbally, he or she will verbally say my newsletter to you at your doorstep, and then say, have a good day, sir.

Like a like a Neo telegram. Yeah. Exactly.

But you're still gonna get it. I'm not stopping. So if it comes from a robot, it comes from a robot.

Alright? But it would it would be like, you know how they like have like your face on a robot. So it would be like a personal touch. It was like, not you. Like later, Tim, I mean robot. But the closest thing to Tim would be like Neo Tim. Like that, right?

Not like iRobot, where it doesn't even look like a person. Yeah. It's like very bizarre.

You ever see those sleeves, the the masks that look like people? Like the breaking bad guy like on TikTok. Like you can walk into a store and be the breaking bag.

Remember in like the 80s when like robbers would put like pantyhose on their face? Yeah. And they're like, you can't really see who I am, but you can see who I am. My my nose is just squished. Raising Arizona? Yep. Exactly. Nick Cage. Was that Nick Cage? Cobra, Sylvester Stallone. Oh yeah. They were pantyhose on their face. Anyway. Alright. So let's get to top three tips. Timmy G's top three. We're not gonna do four today. We're gonna do three. We're definitely not gonna do two.

No.

Five. We considered it. We landed on three. Alright. Number one. And this really hits the point home. I did A, B, C. Where are my referrals? Visibility builds trust. What is visibility? It could be the letter, the magazine, the client event, the email newsletter, or it could be the cold phone call, the text message, a birthday card, a video on your social media account. It can be any of those things. The tip is you have to be top of mind in some way, shape, or form in real estate to survive. Do you know who Joe Stump is?

I don't know that name. Should I know that name? So, um Ed Hendel. Uh What's up, Mr. Hendel? Was uh a realtor for years and we used to do like networking events and stuff, and he would um he built this kind of system. It's like a like referral-only real estate business.

Oh, that was Joe's like that was his uh, you know, his marketing plan or his pitch, whatever. Yeah. Okay.

And I'll never forget sitting in a meeting one time, and Ed Hendel was talking about Joe making a reference to the reticulator activator. Oh, yeah. The reticulating activating system. That's so like Yes, being top of mind. This this is like you're just there. You're there.

You're not leaving. Yeah. Once you leave, guess what? Someone else comes in and they're there now. It's like uh the example, Luke Aikry made this example once on Stay Paid of like you go out and you buy like you buy a new Jeep, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I see the Jeep. I see the Jeep. They're the Jeep.

Are people buying more Jeeps?

No, people aren't buying more Jeeps. You're just seeing it more because now you own one. Yeah. So you're paying attention to it.

So that constant, if you're there every month in a newsletter, you're going to be top of mind for everyone in your in your network.

Correct. So stay top of mind. And then the little tip that I want to leave, which I've said many times before, lead with value. Yeah. So I get email newsletters. Unfortunately, a lot of them stink. No, no offense to anyone. They're just generic. All they did was throw my email address into it and said, you get this random set of information, broken images, all sorts of stuff. And I'll as soon as I get it, I delete it because I'm like, I don't want to look at that. It's the same thing over and over. If you can make it valuable in whatever way it's valuable to you, I think it really has to come from you first and your authenticity. That's my own opinion. But your your client, the person in your network, should want to keep getting it. Yeah. Alright. Number two. Relationships drive referrals. All the way back to the first episode we ever recorded was just called Relationships Drive Referrals. It was just I think it was just called relationships. But you can make names up.

I would no, I was just copying off if you want to. No, you're your top two. That's the that's the title.

Anyway. Um if the relationship stops, what I like to say is the the advocacy stops. So if you just stop, you do these three things your letter, your home valuation email, your client event, and you're done. You don't do anything else. You're like, I've done my stuff. Now it's your job to deliver some opportunity for me because I delivered some value to you, you're toast. Yeah. Like if you stop, purposefully stop communicating per your per Joe Stump's point, you're out of that reticulating, activating thinking system in someone's mind, and someone else probably took the space now, the rent and space in your head now.

It is. It's a you know, I often uh make the analogy or or drive the uh comparison. It's like this turf war, right? And and the turf war in this example would be like the turf war in someone's brain, right? Like your client or your prospect or your you know referral partner or relationship, whoever it may be, is like you're battling that you know that person only has so much space to of real estate that you want to try and occupy and you want to be a part of that. And they may know six real orders, right? But if there's one that sends this uh newsletter every month and it's over and over and over again, you're going to be occupying more of that space than the others. Yep.

Totally agree. And perception is reality. It's like if people perceive you to be the agent of choice, yeah, because you're just talking about it all the time, they're gonna say, hey, Tim knows what he's doing. Sean knows what he's doing, Joe Stump knows what he's doing. They're gonna think that.

Man, Sean must be a really good insurance agent if he has his own podcast.

Sean must be really good at insurance if he switches out mustaches from beards from clean shaven every other week.

Sean must be really good at eBaying. I've seen his work on the podcast.

Front and center. The entire outfit. Um, and the last point I want to make, the last tip that I think helps, consistency equals credibility. And I've heard this so many times, I've said this. It doesn't, it really doesn't matter what you're putting out. Like some people are like, I don't want to put that out. What if they don't like it? Yeah, that's stupid. Like we just recorded a podcast episode where I was acting like a complete idiot, but I don't care because I am goofy like that. That's how I roll. Right. So there's nothing wrong with me acting the way I act. So here's what I'll say if you're overthinking your consistency, your touch points, your marketing, your calls, your emails, your door knocks, whatever it is, you're like, oh man, I don't want another door slammed in my face. That's fine. Find another thing to be consistent at. You don't like getting doors slammed in your face, you're probably not a door knocker.

Yeah.

The person who likes knocking on doors likes getting doors slammed in his and her face because as soon as someone doesn't, it's like the greatest thrill in the world. Not only that, if business actually comes from that, not slamming the door, guess what they're gonna do next week? They're gonna knock on doors again. So think about it. The reason that works is not to say door knocking versus not door knocking or doing a social media video versus not doing one. It's be consistent. Because if you're constantly doing it or things, it's gonna lend to credibility. And then my tips for being consistent, because I personally, again, all my years of training mentoring agents, the one thing I feel like, aside from consistency that I hear the most is like keeping track, accountability. I forgot to do it. So they don't have a Google Calendar, they don't have a planner, they're not interested in time blocking or the responsibility of being accountable to themselves. So it's like find a way to stay consistent through being accountable to yourself. Some people like to write it down on paper, other people like to type it. People want notes on their phone, people just want to remember things. I don't recommend that.

Consistency equals credibility, but I think also, too, as your first point, visibility builds trust. I think consistency builds trust as well. Yeah. Like if you're constantly over and over, like people's perception of bricks and risk, they have a certain perception about our show. The majority of people say the same stuff. Because we are there every single week. Hey, I've seen you. Yeah, that's happened to you. Oh, yeah. That's happened to me. Yeah. And it's doing it over and over again is gonna build trust and it's gonna be build credibility.

Yep.

Totally agree. So I looked it up. It was the OG episode. It wasn't relationships drive referrals. It was the power.

Of relationships. And that was That was the first OG First one we ever recorded. It wasn't number one of our episodes, but that was the first piece of content we had.

That's when we first time we went into Young Junk to record. Shout out to Young Junk. Alright, go ahead and shut this one down. Alright, folks. Thank you for staying with us as long as you have. We want to hear from you. Shoot us an email, bricksandrisk at gmail.com. We want to see you on social media, Instagram, Facebook, get us on YouTube, leave a comment. We'll read your comments. Maybe if they're good. If they're bad, we'll still read them.

Get us on LinkedIn. Make them negative about Mooney because Mooney just got his first negative comment. Yes. That he and Dustin Broome, shout out to Dustin Broome, we're chatting about on Dustin's episode. Mooney got his first negative comment, and he said, We've arrived. Did you see my response? Yeah. And he responded again, and then I politely responded because I don't know how to do it any other way.

So he said, The closest thing to good advice Sean can give is, are you sure you wish to delete your account? What a waste of time. Thank you. Thank you, none of your business 9765. Shout out to none of your business. Shout out to none of your business. Look him or her up. And then I said, Hey, none of your business. Thanks for the listen. We appreciate your support. Our guess is that by your handle, it's either an indication that you live in a convent and wear a habit, or you are a high-performing business owner. If it's the latter, you might be an ideal candidate to be a guest on our show and share your expertise. In your face. Let us know when we can send you the Calendly link. It's just like Eddie Murphy and coming to America.

In the face. In the face. All right. Shut us down.

We're out of here. Peace.

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you next week. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.