"Not to kill a sale, but you should take that deal." | Episode 150

To kill a sale, I'm sure you've walked into a home with a client that they wanted to buy a house, and you're like, this is not the right house for you.

Well, it's funny. I won't say that. I say, what do you think? And they're like, uh-uh. I was like, yeah, 100% agree. Here are where the risks are: the roof, the mold, the yard, the driveway, the block, the exterior, the kitchen. It's not going to give you what you want. Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance, and building your business. Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

This episode is brought to you by Property Management Redefined. PMR is not just managing properties, we're creating partnerships that build long-term success for property owners. John and his team can be reached at manage at goPMR.com or by phone 267-753-6005. Tim. Yes, Sean. Who's a good client for PMR?

Property management redefined is looking for property owners who value three things accountability, reliability, and a results-driven approach. I want to maximize returns, but still provide client and tenant satisfaction.

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Biggest thing is they're seamless and they're worry-free. So with that approach in mind, it allows the property owner to put their trust in PMR and know that the results will be there. The other thing I think a property owner is really gonna value because they do it so well is that they have a local expert team, boots on the ground, managing your properties and your tenants' expectations every day so that you feel good about your investments.

We have millions of listeners out there. Tens of millions.

If they want more information, how do they find PMR? Right here, guys, reach out to John Sachs and his team at Property Management Redefine. We'll take good care of you. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Tim Garrety.

And I'm Sean Mooney. How are you? Coming live and direct from Glenside, Pennsylvania. How's your Thursday going? Thursday. Good? Uh I'm gonna go down to Pictures and get some Meister Brow after the show.

Me and my daughter Ella like to do old school Philly accents like all the time. And now I got her, she she's got it down so well.

You know when I was talking about AI and I was like, you know, I wish I created an AI that would remove like any mention of AI ever? Oh yeah. I I'm done with all the Philly accents. I'm like Oh, like in social media all of it. I just want it wiped, I want it removed from You don't like people imitating us? No, I don't not even that. It's like Too much?

Like the Tina Feish stuff and like Is it on par with people who like eat food on social media and talk about how delicious it is? Yeah. I mean, I love that because they're always collaborating with small businesses. I don't mind that it's too much of it. Yeah, it's like every single time. Everyone's saying the same thing. They're like, oh man, the the tenderness of the beef, uh the crust of the bread.

I wish they would go in and that's the like that one at Donkey's that I sent you where the dude was like, This is crap. Oh yeah. That was great. Like because I was like, this is amazing.

First and foremost, shout out to Donkey's Place. Donkey's in Camden, New Jersey. Fantastic place to get a cheesesteak and one of the most unique cheesesteaks. It's kind of on par with the Schmitter. Schmitter's not a typical cheesesteak.

Hey Mooney, uh, it's your 40th birthday. What do you want to do for your birthday? Let's go to Camden.

First, I want to get custom t-shirts made that are extremely bizarre, which we did. We all wore them. Then uh, where do you want to go eat? Well, I want to eat at Donkey's Place, which we did. Uh where do you want to go drink? Ah, I want to go to Jay's elbow room, which we did. And quite honestly, I remember your 40th probably better than most because it was legit.

And then we went uh there was another place that we went or something, and then we wound up at the mermaid.

Oh, yeah, we went all the way back to Chestnut Hill. Shout out to the mermaid in 1911 eight. All right, man, when we get into that.

Today's topic of discussion is what we titled Not to Kill a Sale, but you should take that deal.

It's well, we you and I have these like shower thoughts or driving thoughts. You almost have to like pull over on the side of the road and like write it down because like something like hits your mind like you're listening to something or just an idea pops in there. But this one, you and I were talking on the phone, so it was a transaction I was working on. Yeah. And you and I are connectors. So client says, Do you know anyone in insurance I should talk to? I said, Absolutely, talk to Sean Mooney, Mooney Insurance Brokers. Connected you guys. What happened after that? Like, where where did things start and like how did this come up?

So it was a unique property. It was uh a big property, big property, expensive property, expensive property, and um reached out and kind of you know did what I normally do and put together uh a program uh for the insurance coverage on the house. And it was kind of a unique scenario because there was a it wasn't like a vanilla type of thing. So um unique in that sense. And um went through the process, uh, got a proposal uh from a carrier that that was pretty good. And I shared it with him, sent it over. Hey, take a look, review, and hop on a call and and go over this. Um, but this is what I'm proposing for the coverage. Okay, great. Thanks for sending it. I'll look it over the weekend and get back to you next week. Great. Next week comes, he sends me back an email. Hey, I uh reviewed your proposal, but I also have this other proposal that I'd like to get you to weigh in on and share your thoughts and ideas about how yours may compare to theirs.

Not the first time someone has shopped, which most people shop insurance because it's more of a commodity.

Yeah. And so he sent it over, I looked it over, and I said, This is pretty good, not to kill a sale, but you should take that coverage, take that policy. Yeah. So kind of the the gist of it was my approach has always been.

And this wasn't a client, this was just a prospect. Yeah, you know. Someone said, Do you know anyone? I said, I do. Yeah. I happen to have a podcast with him, but she was like, No way. He checked, he checked it out. Yeah. But uh, yeah, it was just me connecting someone with you because I knew that he respected customer service. Yeah. We wouldn't have been working together if he didn't. Yeah. And he had mentioned multiple times, introduced him to a few other people for different things. Do you know anyone in insurance? Yes, talk to Sean. And then I remember you and I spoke like maybe the day or the day after he well, continue with the story. What happened after you said like not to kill a sale? And so he was like, Okay, can we grab a call?

And I'm like, Yeah, sure, no problem. So we connected over the phone, and the the gist of the conversation at that point was, and I mean, you know, at this point the it wasn't like dramatic where I my proposal was like bad. No, it was just that I think that that one was a little bit better. By better, do you mean lower? I mean or all encompassing better. I mean the premium was a little you know lower, yeah. Okay. Um, but there's there's a lot of different factors you have to weigh going into this type of property, uh, being as unique as it was. And I kind of knew, like, all right, well, looking at every all the pieces like on the table.

Pay attention to this, pay attention to that, because this is a big home, and if something goes wrong, that's gonna be extremely expensive. Yeah.

So um he called me back, um, had a couple questions on my proposal because there was some of these unique things with the home that we had to make sure we had to like lock in on.

Yep.

And then I said, Yeah, we can do this and we can do that. Um I can revise it. Okay, listen, I'm going with you. Like as long as we can get all the coverage that you and I discussed and get that locked in, I'm I'm gonna use you for my insurance.

Yeah, dude. I mean, the reason we're talking about this in an episode is because one, everyone knows where you and I stand. We're relationship guys, customer service guys. We want clients for life. Yeah. And we want the clients that we have for life to tell their friends and family and co-workers and neighbors and everyone else you ever need insurance, call Sean. You ever need residential real estate, call Tim. Yeah. Like we want to be resources. Yep. And I remember when we were talking about that one. One, it was just such like I know that has happened more than once in your career, obviously. You've been doing this long enough. But I thought that particular scenario was so good because of how you worded it, which is really why we wanted to title the episode.

Oh, yeah, because that was the email, right?

Yeah.

That was what I sent back.

Because you were like telling me the story, and as you were telling me, I was like, well, yeah, because you were like, we were communicating with email. I'm like, would pull it up. What did you say exactly? Yeah. And you were like, you know, not to not to kill a sale, but I think you should take that deal. You know, not exact, but close enough. Well, the first part for sure was identical. I I told him I said not to kill a sale. Yeah. And I I think I literally started just like laughing out loud, like cracking up, because I know you and I know how you roll, but I also know this person.

Yeah.

So it just it it furthers the points that we make all the time that it isn't always about money. And sometimes it's not always about money and/or just like the service, the process of getting the transaction done. There's there's like a third level to it, which is really in the client for life, in the relationship, in the long-term value of being connected with you.

Here's why it's easier for me to take that position. Easier the easier for me than you. Yeah. I always look at it as I've trademarked the marathoners mindset.

Marathoners mindset, which we need to trademark, by the way.

Oh, yeah, we're working on it.

Get some sweatshirts.

Got legal on that. Yeah. Um, I've always looked at it like I'm always gonna get more than one bite at the apple. Right. So if I don't explain that real quick.

Someone's never heard that.

So I look at it like you come to me and I can't, for whatever reason, I can't do your insurance right now. And in this particular case, there was going to be a sequence of events later down the road that would have opened the door at some point. Right.

For sure, like I know just basically further things would have happened in his life to maybe get a second discussion. Right.

So the way I look at it is in my approach is that and why it's easier for me is because I may not be able to write the insurance today, but at some point I may be able to circle back with that prospect to possibly write their business down the road. Yeah. And so my approach is very different than most others because they're like, I gotta get the deal, gotta get the deal now. If I don't get the deal now, I don't make any money. Right. And I don't have another client. Right. And so that's their approach, but my approach is m more long term in that if I don't get the deal now, and it's just like the episode when we did um when I was talking about 13 years ago when I tried to get appointed.

Yeah, with uh with Philadelphia Contribution Ship.

And it's like a no today isn't necessarily a no down the road. The breadcrumbs. Yeah. And so I do the same thing with my clients that I do in just like that scenario, in that if I if I do them right up front, the likelihood of me being able to capture their business down the road is much, much higher. Totally. And it's very similar to my thank you notes when people leave me. You gotta drop this one again.

I love this one. So uh you know, a client I might just have to cancel with you just so I can get a thank you note and then I can take a picture of it and put on Instagram, and then I'll call you the next day and be like, all right, cool, just put me back. I just turn it back on.

Um no, but if you're a client of ours and you've been with us for a period of time, um I value your business, I value the relationship that we've had, I value the idea that you entrusted us to protect your assets and yeah, they gave you a shot. Yeah. So I never want to like downplay that. I I hold that in the highest value that I possibly can.

As do I.

And so circumstances arise sometimes where people need to make a change or a move or do whatever. And so, you know, we've had that happen over over a period of time. Um and a lot of agents, and I've seen this because I've just been doing it so long, is they stammer and you know, oh no, no, no, what if we do this or what if we do that? Or move this around. I I can I can save you a couple bucks. And and our approach is just, hey, you know, we understand. We we understand that things change, and right now it's not a good fit for you to be with us.

Where where do you think you learned to take that approach with uh new clients, existing clients, where it really is look, it's just it's not a good fit, but it's not a good fit for now. And like, can you recall like someone ever teaching you that or like a few instances? You don't need to name them.

No, I I think that um when I worked at our family's shop, the garden center, the nursery, yeah. My mom would bend over backwards to make sure people and to a fault, like I'm like, mom, what are you doing? Too much. What are you doing? Yeah. You know, you're losing your shirt from this person, you know? And from my grandfather when he started it to my mom who like took it over, it was always running that business, and it was it was a retail shop, so well, we had wholesale too, but um It'd be like me coming in, be like, I need some potting soil or I need some plants or whatever, some tools.

Yep.

And uh it was always that face-to-face interaction, and and you know, when I was working there for years, it was always I was always around, I was always going to them, like, hey, how should we handle this or whatever? And it was always 100% of the time, it was always like, all right, well, how can we make this right for the client? Like, it kind of didn't matter.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is like bizarre, it was like weird. Because in most instances, in most cases, it a business is always like, well, you know, let me try to figure this out. Oh no, that that doesn't, you know. And then it's like, you know, we're not we're not gonna lose money on. Yeah, exactly. I I I I remember a story when Gary V was talking about when he was at the wine shop. Shout out to Gary V. Gary V, um maybe we'll have him on the show.

You know what, Gary? Um let's let's make this your formal invitation that Tim Garrety and Sean Mooney with the Brickson Wrist Podcast would love to have you on as a guest. So we'll be following up.

Um but he gave a story one time where it was like a blizzard in the middle of a snowstorm and in Jersey they deliver. Uh-huh. And it was like, I think the order was like 30. It was like two bottles of wine or something. And he was like, okay, I'll and it was a mess I'll put on delivery or something. And he's like, All right, I'll I'll we'll come out and we'll deliver and we'll make this right. Yeah. And any normal business owner would be like, no, we're not doing, you know. It makes no sense. I'm gonna lose money, we're gonna lose time.

Come back, you know, so rather just lose you.

I uh, you know, I for years have listened to him talk about business, you know, and and I love those wine stories because that was kind of like me in the garden center, like him in the wine store, like growing up young, yeah, doing every job, working mad hours for like no pay. Right. But it was like the family business. So I related a lot, you know, to that.

Well, it's interesting you mentioned like your grandfather too, because I feel like, you know, I don't want to like get too into like history or say like this is the way it was, but like older, let's say a hundred years ago, 75 years ago, even 50 years ago, when people ran their business, there was no internet, there was no online review, most people didn't have a PL. You know, it was it was all done eye contact, hand everybody had a PL.

Well, everyone, most things were done on eye behavior behavior towards the business was not predicated by the PL anyway. Is that what you say?

Eye to eye, handshakes, you know, loyalty, customer service, like really letting people know like you care. Like I care about you as a client in my nursery. Yeah like whether you buy one thing a year for $20 or you buy one thing a day for $200, it doesn't matter.

Which is actually um it's actually um in reverse in the way that I think about it, because back then you could hide.

Like there, like if you were like beat it. Like if you gave someone the finger and told them to F off, like you know, beat it. Says who? Who are you gonna I didn't say that? Who are you gonna tell?

There were no cameras, right?

There were no anything.

Right, but you couldn't go online and leave review. You couldn't like go into a Facebook group or an Instagram and post a tweet or something about this business stinks, blah blah, you know. So back then it was even more easier for you to like shit on someone and right. So if you're doing it back then, like where you're just hardcore, I want to treat my customers right because my my customers are like make this thing go, then it says it says just even that much more.

That's awesome. Um, all right, so let's go over my example. So my example, I couldn't really relate not to kill a sale, but you should take that deal to like a real estate client because it doesn't really work like that.

Oh, don't deal with me, deal with Bob. Exactly. Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

Here is a really good example that I thought of, and I've mentioned this on the show before. That people approach me all the time and they're like, Who is real? What is real? Like, I see the name in the media now. I heard they just acquired REMAX. Like, who you know, you used to run your own brokerage. Why are you with them now? So there's like I'm constantly getting people to ask, what's the deal with real? So I want to use it for this example. Yep. And what I've said before is I never want to like if someone says, What's the deal with real? and I talk to them on the phone, I never really try and give too much information on the phone because I don't think it's going to be uh best in their interest to hear from me on a phone call. Even really on a Zoom. I'm like, look, if you have true interest in this company, I I think we should go get coffee. Sometimes they're like, let's just do a Zoom. No problem. Yeah. But it's gonna be face to face in some way. My laptop or a coffee shop or beers. And so someone wants to know about Reel. The first thing I want to know is how can Reel fit into their business? So sometimes I talk to someone, they run an independent brokerage like I did. Could be big tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars in volume a year. It could be a team. Again, tens of millions in volume a year. It could just be a solo agent doing a couple mil a year, which is still awesome, and saying, like, you know, I'd Been solo here for a while. I don't love it. What's the deal with real? So there have been so many times I like sit down with people and I'd be like, All right, tell tell me about your business. And they're like, Well, I'm paying this. I'm like, no. Take the money off the table, the split, the monthly fee, blah, blah, blah. How do you run your business? Where do you run your business? Do you run you go in the office nine to five, Monday through Friday? Are you never in the office? You run out of the house like I do. Like, are you meeting clients on Zoom? Are you like sitting down at a coffee shop? Like, how do you run your business? So then I'll get a sense of like how they run their business. And then I'll ask them about okay, where do your clients come from? Do they come from something related to your brokerage? Are you affiliated with a couple teams or agents in that brokerage? They refer business to you, or does this all come from you? No, it all comes from me. And then the last thing I'll say, which this is like, this is the one where they're like, oh, okay, they're either like in or out at the conversation. I'll say, how important is an office to you? Not in the fact that you need to go work in an office, but that your brokerage is the one responsible for giving you an office. How important is that to you? And here's what I find: I find that there's a lot of people who are very principled about my brokerage owes me an office because when I want to go in the office, they should provide me with something. If I have a closing, they should provide me with something. If I need to meet with a client, I want to run a seminar, I want to go mastermind. Whatever the hell people do in real estate offices these days, they feel it's their right or they need that in order to run their solo team or independent brokerage business on a daily basis.

I think without knowing too much.

Um you know a lot now.

Number one, it's the year 2026. It's kind of from an outsider's perspective, from my vantage point, it's like weird. So then I always like to think of like why, right? Why is the office uh a topic? Why is that a topic? Yeah, so um number one, it's weird because technology and everything else, you don't technically need an office and everything, you know, it just doesn't you don't need an office to do your job as a real estate agent. So that's just a given. So then it's like why? And in my mind, it's like I feel that they need to present this professional um environment? Yes. Yeah. Like they're not capable. I don't want to say capable, that's not the right word.

Um that's how they prove their model to you? Is through this professional environment where you go in and you greet the admin and you go back to your desk kind of thing?

No, it it reinforce so by having an office and all of that, it reinforces to the client how professional you are. Okay. That's a good way of looking at it. So you're using it as a reinforcement. You know, it's like it's like if someone to tell you, and I've heard this before in real estate, is like, oh, you've got to drive a fancy car. Right. Yes. That's a really good example. If you drive a fancy car, then you're gonna get business. Then you're then these clients are gonna know you're very professional. You're very successful. Successful. Right? You have an office, you're successful. Where's your office at?

Oh, now we did. Where's your office? Yeah. Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host. But don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth, so if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now, back to the show.

So I think that if you look at it from that standpoint, there's a lot of real estate agents that rely on the office or the car or the attire, like the all of the the brand of the brokerage is accessories.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. The accessories. They rely on the accessories. The real estate agent accessories. Mark this down. You came up with that.

Yep. And and by by checking by how it's it's like, remember the Jennifer Aniston movie? Um where she was Aniston movie? She was the waitress.

You mean leprechaun?

No. Bride of Chucky. No. Um was the first movie that popped in my head. I don't know. It's weird. Um but she was the uh the waitress at like the pizza shop, and she had all the flair. Oh, this uh office space. It was office space, yeah, yeah.

But it's like Yeah, Mike Judge was like, uh, you're you're 30 pieces of flair? Yeah. Where where are they? Yeah.

It's kind of like that. It's like it's like you're a better waitress if you have more flair.

It's like you're a better real. Remember there was like the douchebag in the movie? He was like, you should have more flair like like Billy or whatever the hell his name was, and he was like a total D-bag. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you should be more you why why do you have only four pieces? Why don't you have thirty like Billy? Right. Right? Yeah. It's kind of like that in in that yeah, the perception. Perception. And so I think people, real estate agents, get swept up in this like competitiveness, and you know, you're always trying to like keep up with the next agent and what they're doing and how what they have going on, um, that they need that to show to their client or prospect, like, you know, look how look how great we are. So I think it's so that's kind of my why is like, all right, well, you don't the technology's here. You you don't need to be in the office, but but having an office is yeah.

Yeah, like I and then when I get to that question with someone, I I will say, like, let's say they're used to going to an office once a week. Yeah. Maybe twice, whatever. They know that they have that option. They know that they can unplug from their home or their home office, they can drive 15, 20 minutes down the road, they can set up at a desk or a table, and they can work for four hours, eight hours, twelve hours in an environment. It gets them out of the house. Yeah, but here's why it's so dumb. Well, let me finish. Hold on. I'm gonna forget if you're so it gets them out of the house. Yeah. So, but it's just it's like a routine. So then I get, I'm like, here's what I'll say to you. Even if you go in the office once a month, you have to be 80% all in on the concept. The brokerage does not provide an office. Doesn't mean you can't go get one. Oh, yeah. You can go to a co-working space, get a desk for $300 a month. Like you can go team up with another real team and go work at their office.

There's no real broker, Shangri-La office.

Uh I mean, Real's got like a dozen offices in and around Philadelphia for a brokerage that doesn't supply offices. Sure. Yeah. So we I try and get their mind wrapped around that to say, like, you need to be 80%. Yeah, I don't expect them to provide that for me. If I really need one, I will go get one myself. I'll figure it out. Go ahead. What was your thought? Dumb. Yeah. This is dumb. All right, why is it dumb? Do you pay a desk fee? Uh a lot of them you do. How much? Um, 100, 200 bucks a month, let's call it on average.

So here's why it's dumb. Because you're paying for that, number one. Yep. And number two, if you need a space, you there's the co there's 800 million co-working spaces around the corner from your house, probably closer than the actual office you were you're working in. And you can have all the amenities of an office. Probably more amenities than the office you already go to. Except you won't have the receptionist to show that you're very professional.

Correct.

Um, well, all right, so we get to that point, and then they'll say, Yes, Tim, I'm 80% in on the broker that's not providing me with an office. I'm like, all right, now let's get down to brass tacks. Like, let's talk about like what's important to you. This is your disqualification process. This is the Mooney deadbolt for Tim Garrety talking to agents who are interested in real. Yep. This is my own deadbolt. Yeah. Because I've also learned this through Copper Hill. I don't want to get too far off, but like at Copper Hill, I owned a brokerage. My job was to find people who want to work at my brokerage. Yeah. Like that was my job. Call it, I was more of a recruiter back then. Yeah. Doesn't mean I liked it. Doesn't mean it was national.

What's your role within the it was my role.

I had business partners. I had people that relied on me to help grow the brokerage. My job was to recruit agents in the brokerage. When I joined Real, when I pivoted, what I realized is I don't need to do shit. I don't need to recruit anyone. I don't need to bring anyone here. I don't even need to tell anyone I like it here. Because it really has no bearing on what on how I'm running my business today. But what's happened organically is I just happen to work at a place now that is trendy, is uh in the news, is growing, has a better financial structure than Copper Hill had, has a cool brand, has a lot of people that work there. So now people are more curious what's the deal? And then they just hit me up. Yo, what's the deal? And sometimes I'll be like, yo, let's sit down and like get coffee, and I won't hear back. And I'm like, cool, that's that's why I have a deadbolt. And then when I get to that meeting where we get through all the stuff and I start talking to them about their business, then I start talking about, all right, let's talk about the financial piece because it's one of the best in the industry. Let's talk about the technology operationally that helps your business. Try not to think about marketing and things like that. Just think about the amount of work it takes to run a deal and why their technology helps you out with that. Then let's talk about the people who work there and their mindset. It's more collaborative. And the company's like that. And the agents who really identify with the company are kind of like that. Not everyone, not everyone's gonna think the same way, but the high majority are like that. So do you like those things? I freaking love those things. Okay, cool. Then I think we should seriously talk about if you were to leave where you are, what would it look like if you came here? And that's happened a handful of times. I have a little network at Reel. But I will say the majority of people who bring it up to me in conversation, just at an event, on a phone call, on a text message, will ghost me when I say, not interested in talking about it over the phone or over text or in person. If you're serious about a conversation, let's get coffee, let's do a zoom, let's get a beer. And let's call it half will fall out. So that's really my what and what do you attribute that to?

I also attribute- they're not serious, or they just want like a snippet of like or they're looking for you to say something that's like It's just like you.

Rather than you piecing together this deal for the client, oh, let me lower the coverage on this, let me shift this out. I got, you know what? I'm $25 lower, sir or ma'am, on your coverage now. Do you want to go with me? Where in the back of your mind you're like, I just like took out the things that I really think they need. So it's the same mindset that I would rather kill the sale and just say, I don't think it's a good fit for you. They may go talk to another real agent who could benefit financially if they come there and they'll sell them on everything and they'll bring them in. Totally fine. It's funny.

I don't care. I had this happen recently. Uh, we had a long-term client leave. Said, hey, I got this um quote from another carrier.

It's less money, it's gonna give me some savings. You're like, I don't like corduroy hats anymore.

Yeah, I'm out. Yeah. Um, and I said, uh, I said, uh, all right, let me let me take your info and I'll repackage it to our other carriers because stuff has changed in the last year, you know, so you never kind of know how it's gonna lie and like what how it's gonna shake out. And so I quoted through and I said, Hey, like I could save you a little bit of money, but like on par, you're looking at like relative relatively the same. And their response was, well, their coverage is less and their deductibles are higher, um, maybe that's where the savings was. And I said, Well, yeah, like you know, um less coverage, less cost. And um how did it pan out? Uh oh, so then I then he came back to me and said, Oh, if I just send you over what they can you um just match with that? I said, No. I said, no, because I know you, I know what your levels of coverage need to be at. Yep. I said, I'm not gonna um I'm not gonna put you at risk if something were to happen. Which is that's exactly accurate. That's what you're doing. Right. And so uh I said, in fact, I actually would encourage you to like take higher limits because when we started this plan like four or five years ago, yeah, things have changed. You know, the cost of a roof has gone up, yeah, your home is worth more, right? And all these different factors. So I said, I actually would try to get you to like take more coverage. So I'm like just digging myself deeper into this hole. And then finally, like, he's like, Yeah, I'm just gonna take the savings and and leave. And I was like, Cool, yeah, I know what's important to you. Yeah, yeah, like it. I was like, I was ready for it. I was like, you know, if if that's if you want to save like 30 bucks a month, if that's like your drive. I say this all the time.

Let's agree to disagree. I think you should be more protective. You think you should save more money. Yeah, like I'm not the client, you're the client. It's what you want. I want to save money. See you later. Yeah. You know, unfortunately. Yeah. If it changes, right here. Yeah. We'll talk about it again. Right. Maybe I get another carrier that gets you the same level of coverage I want. Maybe they got something lower, maybe another carrier steps in next year. Maybe I revisit this in three years, and I can save you more money.

Well, I think too, is that like somewhere along the line, like that person's gonna have like a friend that was in an accident that was like, oh man, you know, like I didn't have enough coverage now. This is happening, that's happening. And so like maybe there comes a time where they're like, Oh, you know what? Maybe Sean was right. Maybe I need to like circle back with him and yeah, have him get us back on board. So that's kind of so my North Star is always doing what's in the best interest of the client. Correct. And that's kind of this episode, and and the title of the episode, and kind of how I operate day in and day out, is I'm just always going to try and do what's best for the client or prospect, regardless. No matter what. And this is we should title this like the anti-sales episode, because you know, it's it's not sales, sales, sales, get the sale, make more money, move on, whatever. It's uh a direct 180 from that.

Alright, so let's go over actual advice. Let's talk about it. I I can go first. I I might have to, you know, when we upload the episodes to Buzz Sprout now and everything's video, so we're video on Spotify, we're video on Apple. Check us out on Apple podcasts if you haven't yet. Video.

Maybe we'll have Tim Cook on. Um is he still the guy or are they got the new guy in yet? I don't know.

I'm gonna have to hit that little toggle switch that says, you know, profanity or like explicit language. Because here's my actual advice. Stop chasing shit and focus on attracting the right people. Because there's so many people, and I talk to agents all the time. Like, I'm, you know, we're gonna do, I'm doing the uh workshop with Justin Heath. Yep. You're the MC. Yep. Bear wow me with the outfit. And at the event with a white t-shirt. At the event, Justin's gonna teach on hunting for sales, but again, he's it's not chasing, he just does it a different way, he communicates in different ways, and he tries to uh speak with his clients through different channels than I do. Okay. And then I'm gonna teach farming techniques, which are a little bit more like look, you're putting things out there or you're doing things or putting things together for people that let them know you care, and when they need uh a real estate, they have a question, they want service, they just want to know what you think, they'll hit you up. And that's you know, that's what we'll be teaching. But the reason I say stop chasing shit is just like the example I made for the person, someone else I might work with at Reel, where they're just like they're making 50 phone calls a day to agents they don't know. They're telling everyone it's one of the best financial financial packages out there, they're telling everyone we have some of the best tech out there, they're telling everyone how collaborative we are. It's tell, tell, tell, sell, sell, sell. And and everyone's got their way of doing it. But what I will say to that, if all you're trying to do is sell, sell, sell all day, people are gonna leave just as fast as they came in. And I did have to learn this the hard way at Copper Hill. We had over a hundred agents in a nine and a half year period at the brokerage. And when we were pivoting from the brokerage at the end, we had less than 40. So, like, I saw over 60 people come out and go. Yeah. For all different reasons. Most of the time was money. Ah, this person offered me this, or their office is a little bit more convenient, or they just sold me on it. I was ready for a change. And it's all these people selling all day, and there's all these. I even know agents at real, they're like, man, I'm getting all these phone calls, all these other brokerages call me, like, oh, we want you on our team. We want you to be at our brokerage. You're so great, you're so awesome. Would you like to get coffee? And everyone's doing that. Everyone's trying to sell all friggin' day. My advice is don't sell. Have a little bit of a deadbolt with your approach that says, I want to make sure my opportunity is a good fit for you and your business. It's not the other way around. And if you can look at it that way, then you're always putting the client first. It'd be in my case, be putting the agent first. I'm putting, I don't want to see you come in here, change your brokerage, change your signs, change your cards, change your website, change your tech, and six months later, you're like, this place friggin' sucks. Why did I come here? Why did I talk to Tim? I don't want that to happen. I don't want that to happen at all. That happened at Copper Hill. People would come and they were gone in three months or six months. I'm like, what the hell? I'm like, I only the only thing I do is look in the mirror and be like, what did I do wrong? How can I get a little better?

Um, we have an 80-20 rule that 80% of your headaches come from 20% of your business. It's a freaking great line right there. Right? Yep. Um, so you have to like we learn the hard way, as do most people, that you know, you win an account, you kind of know like how much are they gonna be part of that 20 where I get 80% of my headaches? Right. And so that's something to factor in when you're looking at it. Like, yeah, it'd be great to have 30 more agents, or or build a team that's 12 agents or whatever it may be. But how many are coming in and how much does that absorb your time and give you headaches and all of that, and then after two years, you know, what percentage are gone. So it's it's something to weigh when you're looking at these transactions. Um the other thing I was gonna say was Yeah, is this your actual advice we're jumping into, or is this just no, this is just me spinning off the top of my head.

It's a Munious point. We're getting a Munious point, right?

The other one was you said that you really don't have that um it hit me like a bolt of lightning. Um that to kill a sale, I'm sure you've walked into a home with a client that they wanted to buy a house, and you're like, this is not the right house for you.

Well, it's funny. I won't say that. I'll say, what do you think? And they're like, uh-uh. I was like, yeah, 100% agree. Here are where the risks are the roof, the mold, the yard, the driveway, the block, the exterior, the kitchen. You it's not gonna give you what you want.

But if you went in trying to sell them on sell every client on every house that, you know.

Oh, I know you want to move. Yeah.

I mean, you can move. We can move here. Yeah, we can make this deal happen. Yeah. You know, if you were if your North Star was get the deal, do the sale, rinse, repeat, right? Uh, that would be that would be different, a different approach for sure.

I mean, there's literally like people in my network, not to get again. I feel like I'm going all down all sorts of tunnels. People in my network Maybe I'm taking you there. I think you are. Like ten years ago, will literally like call me. And say, thank God I met you and thank God I listened to you when I bought this place. Cause this has been the greatest investment. We love it here. Like we're raising our kids here. Financially, it's worked out. Best commute to work. Like people will literally, because at the time they were like, I don't know, maybe we should, maybe we should look at like three more. Or you know what? Maybe that price is like 25,000 more. And it's like when it comes down, it's like when when I know what someone wants and they can't get out of their own way, my job is to say, like, look, this is what you want. I think you're gonna walk away from it. If you don't make it happen, I think you're gonna have a big regret. Do you think I'll be calling you in 10 years from now? Yes. I do. You don't want to two things sitting on the pool ledge with a seltzer in your hand and the fills are on, or the day that you fill in the pool and you put sod in your yard and you're like, thank God I met Tim.

I said uh someone asked me the other day, he said, Oh, how's the pool? What's the pool going? I said, I think my kids, my kids are done with it. Like the the all that pool stuff's like over. And uh I'm like, I think neighbors are done with it too. Uh yeah, yeah. It's like pool season's over.

Like, hey Sean, can I come over for like an hour?

Yeah. Now, did I tell you the story the one time? Uh they're going way way. So everybody's down to shore. I get home, crack open a seltzer, I'm on the back patio. Nice. Right. Um, and I got the grill going, and so I'm facing the house. And two neighbors, the kids from a neighbor neighbor's house come come in the side door with tails over their shoulders. Yeah, and they're like, hey, Mr.

Look, I want to have a word with your parents right now.

I'm like, oh my God, what are you doing here? They're like, I was going for Swift, taking a dip. And I'm like, uh no. Okay. But but then I was like, then at that point, I'm all in. You're like, you want a seltzer? You want a dog? No, I'm all in. I'm I'm texting everybody. Hey, anybody wants to come and hang out? I got the girl going, I got beards. Yeah, like at that point I'm like, Yeah, you're like, let's go. I was like, come on, boys, we're gonna have some fun tonight. What's your actionable advice? Actionable advice is I don't know, because for me, I know how I operate. I, you know, I I would say to be someone's thinking the opposite. I would say I don't want to kill any sales. So I would say that I think the way that my approach, where where the dividends are paid with my approach, are that you're going to gain more long-term clients and better clients. And and like that's been my the whole less of the twenty, more of the eighty. Yeah. I I think when you approach it in the way that I approach it is that people understand and appreciate that perspective and point of view, and they have an understanding that you are really working to have them in the best position. Yeah, it's about them. And and that will pay dividends over time. It's not that quick hit that you're gonna get. You know, if I didn't write this account that we're talking about as an example to leave the show, you know, I don't get that that commission payment immediately. Right. But um, you know, maybe at the end he comes back because he really wants to work with an agent that puts him in the you know, the best possible position long term, and maybe, you know, and then maybe it's like then we're together for 10 years, you know, based on that alone. So so that's what I say is it's not it's not for everyone, right? I I think there's sales, sales, sales, sales, salespeople. Um that it just doesn't that's their DNA. They want they want to do that. That's fine. It's fine. Um but I think that the value that we lend and bring is going to have you with better clients longer term.

Totally agree. I'm gonna go ahead and shut this one down.

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100%. Well, that's all we have for this one, folks. Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of Bricks and Risk. We'll see you soon, and we'll see you in a new environment soon. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.