Episode #65: Executing Business Design Solutions with Brent Bush

[00:00:00] One of the questions we ask is what do you love most about what you do? And you had said bringing creative visions to life for others and myself. So what is it about like envisioning things that drives you that you love design? I mean, it's really been my passion since I was pretty young just as started with like drawing and things like that. And it's just developed into this just like ongoing passion where I just like to create things.

[00:00:27] I like to make new things and put them into the world whether it be someone's brand or just art in general. It's just making new things and creating them is just is really what drives me. It's just it's just I have like a never ending thirst to just keep creating things. That's awesome, man. I actually remember like high school days you had this badass like Jim Morrison like doors drawing. Like I think it was like in your room or your desk or something. I remember looking at I was like, did you draw that? And you're like, yeah.

[00:00:55] I was like, holy crap. Like that's that's insane. It's funny. I don't even remember that. Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate insurance and building your business. Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk.

[00:01:27] Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Tim Garrity. And I'm Sean Mooney. Like the gear, man. Pumped up. All right. Ready to roll. We have our boy Brent Bush from Brent Bush Design. What's up, man? Oh, guys. Nice to be on. Yeah. Awesome. Welcome on into the show. All right. Little background on Brent.

[00:01:52] Brent. So Brent has been executing design solutions for over 20 years in the Philadelphia area and beyond. Whether it be global pharma reaching all the way to Japan, real estate from the ground up, home decor or the tech sector, he's taken on all challenges. Brent grew up in Philadelphia and currently resides in South Philly with his wife, Ashleen. Correct? Well done.

[00:02:17] And Dog Nico, who's a girl. Bishop McDevitt, high school grad. What's up, Lancers? Go, Lancers. And Philadelphia College of Textiles and Sciences, which is also known as Philadelphia University, as well as the new Jefferson University. Correct. Nice. All right. So we're going to talk about branding today.

[00:02:39] We got a lot of little subtle clues swimming around this episode thanks to my pal Sean over here. Am I like a wannabe brand designer? I think so. All right. So let's talk about branding specifically. So that's your specialty. Correct. Yep. So how do you personally go about starting the branding process with a client? That's probably the most important part is the discovery part.

[00:03:07] And that's probably the part that really separates like a designer from something that you would get online for like, say, like Fiverr or things like that. Right. That discovery process is where you really try and learn as much as you can about the client. Because in a brand, the biggest thing you want to probably impart is your own personality or your own style or your own aesthetic. And like that's the thing that like, for example, like AI, like AI won't really learn about you.

[00:03:34] That discovery process in the beginning is where I like to really learn about the person that the brand is going to be really representing. Yeah. All right. So you mentioned like Fiverr. I think that's a really good example. So let's talk about Fiverr. Okay. So Fiverr, it's a useful place to get logos. It is. It just depends what you're looking for. I have personally never used it for anything myself.

[00:03:58] I think at Copper Hill, we might have used it for like one or two things that were outside of the company if they were like, you know, like a development or something like that. I think maybe Andrew and Ryan might have like dabbled with it before, but I haven't used it. But like you said, Fiverr is not going to have a discovery process. They're not going to ask you, all right, like how do you want this to go? Like what's the vibe you're looking for? Like what colors do you like this? And they're just going to like spit something out. Right. For like very little money, which again can be cost effective.

[00:04:28] But why does it make sense to work with someone like a human being, let's say specifically locally? Exactly. Yeah. So I've actually had clients come to me that have tried to initially go through Fiverr and they've come to me. And they've been like, here's the results that we got. And it looks like stock almost like there's no personality. There's no real soul in the design. And they're like, so what at that point I would, I would ask them, let's back it up. Like, let's not start where Fiverr started. Let's go back for that. It's like start fresh.

[00:04:56] And learn really about you and like what you're trying to represent. Like really what you're trying to, in like a matter of seconds, have the client or the demographic really understand about you instantaneously. Well, it's like the voice. It's like, it's like when you are using a brand to reflect your company or whatever you have, it's the voice of how you're speaking to the audience, right?

[00:05:23] Whether it's an existing client or a prospect or whatever. And it's using your voice to communicate kind of like in a snapshot of like, what are we all about? And like getting it into a granular visual. It's tough, man. It's hard to do. And I think with like, if you did a Fiverr or something, that's fine for something like, doesn't mean anything. But if you want... Like rogue logos?

[00:05:52] If you want to do a rogue logos, that's, you know, perfectly fine. But if you're... If you want to have your brand have meaning for what you're all about, you can't input something into a computer and just have it generate out what you're hoping to accomplish. Right. And that's where kind of AI comes in now because what you're talking about, just inputting prompts into the machine.

[00:06:21] And having... Taking the results of whatever that machine gives you back is kind of like what you're talking about there. And it doesn't really always give you results that, I mean, that you can really say that really represent you. It's kind of just like an amalgamation of like different parts that are like put into one. It's really not like an original concept or thought. It's just a bunch of different pieces from one that are basically in yours. And there's a lot of copyright things involved in that too. That like it's not necessarily original.

[00:06:51] Well, if you have an LLM, right? You're just pulling from information that's out there. Already been done. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's not something that's unique. It's not something that's reflective of you or your company or... It's just let's take anything that could be related to this and blah. Right. Exactly. Explain the LLM. Large Languan Modeling? Okay. Gotcha. So it's... I don't know.

[00:07:20] It's essentially what the core basis of AI is. It's like a learning model that's just like you're putting information into it and it's spitting you back the results of this large database. So it's like... I always say that AI is really not new. AI is just like a... Like a Google on steroids. It's like more mainstream. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's... All right. It's just... It's taking information that's out there.

[00:07:47] So you have to then prompt it to pull that information and then kind of bundle it together for the final product. It's like how search engines aim to be. It's a search engine. Exactly. So here's a good question, which this is a good conversation about branding and quality branding versus like something that's like, you know, cheaper, let's say it doesn't cost as much. Do you use any AI platforms just to like test some things? Have you messed with it a little bit? Like capabilities.

[00:08:17] What can this thing do that maybe I can or can't do? Have you done anything like that? Right. So that's actually a good thing that I wanted to talk about because it's like AI cannot... AI is not necessarily replacing people. It's just necessarily like a tool that you can use to make yourself more efficient or get to certain results quicker or comp quicker. Like if you're like, oh, I would love to see what like a suburban neighborhood looks like with our sign in it. Boom.

[00:08:45] I can like make a quick AI that may not exist in stock photography the exact way that you want it. And we can kind of like customize that. But you wouldn't necessarily use that for like advertising or something. You can use it for maybe like social media content and things like that. So it's a tool that you're just using. It's just another tool. And the sooner that you learn how to use that tool, you know, you'll be behind if you don't start learning how to use these tools. So I'm not suggesting not using these things. There's a usage for those things.

[00:09:14] And you can make like a theme song for this show real quick if you wanted to with like... Don't tell Mooney that, please. So like, you know, things like that you can use as like a tool. It'll be like three company music like set to like something Bricks and Risc related. So like I said, yeah, it's just like anything. It's a tool. Like you can use it for image generation. But I wouldn't recommend it necessarily for branding because that's like a deeper kind of discovery process. Like how we started the conversation. It needs more like fine tuning. It needs that human touch.

[00:09:43] Well, it's supplemental, right? So you can say, hey, Chachipt, build me out an email that I can send to my list that, you know, gets this, this, this, and this. And it'll give it to you. Should you use it? Probably not. You should probably take that. Because it's going to sound robotic. And then customize it. Right. Exactly. So it's a supplement. Edit what you have kind of thing. Right. So you're supplementing kind of like it's a tool, right? It's a tool. Exactly. You can assist in what you're trying to develop.

[00:10:09] And I was going to ask that of you guys, like, has that come into your fields and like for like real estate, like, and for, for insurance, for example, like I'm sure there's, there's usages and like there's insurance companies rolling out, you know, programs that are, that are like, um, I don't know, like, uh, denying claims or accepting claims and things like that. Yeah. So, uh, carriers have done it specifically where they have, you know, inputs and,

[00:10:36] you know, I don't know if they're making the final decision when it comes to like a claim or something like that. Um, but yeah, they're, they're inputting and I've seen insurance agencies. There's a company out there called Gale and they are literally have their phone system hooked up to an AI bot that's listening to the, uh, caller and like, like a manager used to do essentially, they used to listen in on calls.

[00:11:06] No, this person's talking. Right. Okay. So the AI bot is answering the call and say, what can we do? Like role-playing with a bot. Yeah. That's what I meant. Like role-playing with a manager listening. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So then actually on ring central on mine, I started doing it and it gives you notes on your, um, so, so basically it'll listen to your call, give you notes on your, um, after the phone call is done, it'll say, Hey, these are the topics discussed, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:11:32] And then if there's a follow-up, if it can detect a follow-up that's needed, like if I'm like, Hey, I'll get back to you tomorrow. It'll then prompt you to say, Hey, do you want to set a follow-up? Wow. Based on this. So there's major integration going on, on a lot of levels with AI that is, again, it's an enhancement and a tool. And you're right. Like if you're not adapting to put that tool in your tool belt, you're missing out. A couple of years, you're.

[00:12:01] That'd be like anti-internet, like 30 years ago. It'd be like, well, I'm not going to use that. Why would I use that? And it's like, well, you should, because it can make you better at your job. You can learn more in life. You don't need Encyclopedia Britannica anymore. Like you can figure things out. Right. To your question in real estate, I haven't done a ton with chat GPT. Most of what I used it for is through content creation. So I've done a little bit for like bullet points in video content.

[00:12:30] Not so much with this show, but some of the stuff I was doing at Copper Hill prior. Also, I've done it for blog posts. I got back into blogging in like probably like the beginning of like 2023 maybe and was doing it for a while. And then, you know, Copper Hill stopped in spring of 2024. And I plan to start using it again. But I know a lot of people in my field are using it for like role playing scripts. They're using it for listing descriptions. Like someone gets a new listing.

[00:13:00] You got to write, you know, 10, 20 sentences about the property. And most people are like, oh, well, you're walking through the main foyer. And then you look to the left and it's the diary. It's like, yo, I've never written them that way. Right. Like what I've done with listing descriptions, I have a template that I just kind of change little things in and out because my template is based on the lifestyle and not on the home itself. It's like when people buy a home, they're buying a home because they want to be in that town or they want to be in that school district or they want that convenience or that restaurant or whatever.

[00:13:29] So that's how I have used it. But I know people in my industry pitch AI be like, it'll write all your listing descriptions. It'll do this. I'm like, yo, as you said, like it's a tool that can help with all that. But I've seen people even post content, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and I read it and I'm like, dude, this is like complete copy paste. Yeah. There's like an uncanny valley thing with both writing and with imagery. You know, you can still tell when something looks a little fishy. Yeah. And AI has six fingers.

[00:13:57] Well, the fingers is one of the main things. And also typography doesn't do a great job with typography. And that's like, you know, typography is one of like the key things for me about branding is, you know, bringing it back to branding is like, is typography is one of the, it's one of the things that we go to school for. That's one of the things that like someone who just picks up Canva and starts thinking that they're a designer doesn't have that skill, doesn't have that background, doesn't have that. But I'm not talking about the rogue logos. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, you know, I'm very offended.

[00:14:27] I can't wait to get these rogue logos. Like those are the, those are like the minutia and like the really like the, the nuances that really set like branding apart. Yeah. I've seen some agencies that like go through like a whole dissertation where they have to like literally build out a portfolio. And I guess one day I'd love to do it is like the fonts and like, what does this font mean? Does this font reflect your company and values and what culture inside of your, you know,

[00:14:55] and then you kind of build out not only the fonts, but then the colors and the color schemes and the colors matching. Right. And then you kind of take that as your template and it's, it's everywhere so that you're, whether it's on social media or it's, you know, on your website or, you know, everything's kind of continuous based on that package. Right. And also like the questions that I would ask you during that process would lead down a road that you might not have, have thought of that you were like initially going for.

[00:15:22] Like I'll be asking you questions like, is it going to be in print? Is it going to be in digital? Is it, do you need a horizontal and a square version of it? Like what usages are you going to be using as moving forward? Is it going to be on banners on the side of fences or like a development, like things like that, that are going to be down the road that I've experienced that I, that I know is going to be probably coming down the road for you at some point are things that the, like a, you know, like a model like that wouldn't ask you. Like it's based on experience and things like that, that I would know about your, your business.

[00:15:51] Are you going to plaster Andre the Giant's face on a telephone pole? Right. You know, if you'd want to know that if you're a designer. Right. Exactly. All right. So let me do a follow up to my initial branding question. So you've conceptualized a real estate brand, Copperhill Real Estate, podcast brand, Bricks and Risk. Mooney Insurance Brokers. Yeah. But you've also handled branding for a skincare company I was checking out on your website.

[00:16:19] So what was that like being like a little outside of like, you know, these business brands and stuff like that? Like, what was it like designing something for like skincare? And then also talk about that discovery. I'd love to hear just a little bit about like the work process. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the, the big difference in my experience has been either B2B or B2C and the, the, the, the skincare stuff was, was mainly like B2C. Like that's a whole different thing. Like retail is a whole different sector.

[00:16:45] And B2C is like a whole, another beast that I've done a lot of work in. Different audience. Yeah. And it's a different approach really. Like you're not really trying to sell something per se to like in B2B, you're trying to more explain things in B2B. Right. Yep. In B2B and B2C, you're really trying to like market and sell. Someone's going to walk by this. Right. Does it catch their eye? Right. You're thinking about demographics. Like you're thinking about what, what is it on the shelf next to and things like that.

[00:17:12] So you have to go do research and see what it's going to be standing next to and see what, what the competition looks like. B2C or B2B, I mean, is a little bit different. It's a little bit different of an approach. So that was, I did that also when I worked in like home decor, I wasn't developing actual home decor, like live, laugh, love. I wasn't the one making like, like that kind of thing. Yeah. A trillionaire if you came up with that. Damn. Like love you to the moon and back and you're my sunshine, things like that.

[00:17:40] But it was more of the marketing of that, of that to like target and to big box stores and things like that. So I would have to like create sales materials essentially for us to pitch them on the things that we were making. Because that's kind of how, how I fell into that aspect of it. So it's been more like marketing. So I did develop some of the branding and the products in that, in that skincare that you saw. It goes way beyond that. It goes way beyond that. It's, it's a lot of marketing involved in that.

[00:18:09] So that's, that's where I get in depth with like the marketing angle. Did the skincare company ever try and create a rogue Brent Bush brand? There, I mean, there was, there was a lot of things going on in, in that brand. It was kind of a, like a tumultuous company. I would say that I don't even think really exists anymore because. Oh wow. Yeah. That, that, that was a, that's a whole nother story we're not going to get into today. Sure. Yeah. Well, it's, if you haven't noticed, I keep saying rogue brands.

[00:18:34] It's, it's kind of like an ongoing joke because Mr. Mooney here likes to take it upon himself to take our perfectly fine and very professionally done bricks and risk brand from Brent, who so gladly put in his time and expertise to make sure it looks right, to go ahead and create his own clothing and give me a hat, which took him, like, I was like, am I going to see a hat before Ella has to spoon feed me? Like my daughter's six. So it's like, he gets me this hat.

[00:19:04] I was telling Brent, we're at our networking event. He throws my hat. I look at it and I'm like, what the hell is this? He's like, it's our new hat. I'm like, it's not even our logo. Couldn't get it quite right. So I saw the, I saw the picture. I was going to go to the network event, networking event and I couldn't make it out, but, um, I did see the pictures afterwards. You could tell. And I was like looking at the pictures. I was like, I didn't do that. What is going on with these? What is that shit? And I didn't want to ask. I didn't want, you know, I was like, you know what? I, I handed you the brand and if you want to go and do other things with it, like feel

[00:19:33] free, like, but at the same time, it kind of hurt my heart. I was like, I was like, that's my baby. What did you do with it? What did you do? Why'd you dress it up in that? I was like, what is going on there? Can we talk? I can help me help you. If you want a lightning bolt in there, I can help you, uh, incorporate a lightning bolt. Just let me know. Has there ever been a time Brent where you were, uh, you didn't know where your, where your brand or logo would end up?

[00:19:59] And like, you were driving down 95 and John Morgan had like a Brent design on, on the, on the, uh, billboard. Oh, that's a good question. Like, like your stuff, like, have you ever been like surprised or shocked or like where, where like you started off with a logo at some point in it and it wound up somewhere and you're like, darn, that's mine. Oh, I saw it in the wild. Like things that I worked on in the wild or like, uh, you know, I didn't know they would go this route with it.

[00:20:25] Like, wow, that, that ended up there and that like looks really cool or something like some like replication kind of thing. Yeah. A lot of that happened when I worked in tech at Broadview there because that was like a, kind of like a big, uh, technology company. So buy that stock. So I would see, I would see like that in like different situations that I wasn't expecting to see it in like, like, uh, like a flyers game or something like that. Like they were, cause they were sponsoring or something. I'd be like, Whoa.

[00:20:52] And, and with like Copper Hill, honestly, I'd be like walking my dog in, in center city and walk by a sign and be like, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. So that was pretty cool. Nice. Hey everyone. This is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host, but don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth. So if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're

[00:21:20] on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BNR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now back to the show. All right. So you're a relationship guy. We're relationship guys. We we've known each other since high school, full disclosure. Um, and you've built your business through referrals.

[00:21:47] So why has that always been your approach? Is it just more your, your natural personality? Is there like a strategic approach to referrals? Honestly, I think, uh, it's just become like an organic thing to be honest with you. Like, um, cause you know, I, um, I do freelance design kind of as like a side thing. So, um, that's not, it's not my core focus, but it's just kind of grown that way.

[00:22:12] Like for example, um, the company I just mentioned brought you, my boss that while I worked there, um, he used to talk about making this like award company while I worked there. And then I left the company and years later, he, he contacted me. He's like, Hey, remember that award company that I talked to you about when we were working together. Now I'm doing it. Now I'm running it. I would like you to design all the awards for it. Oh, that's cool. So I still work with him. Like I, I met up with them recently and we designed something for, um, it's called we, like we love tech awards.

[00:22:41] And, you know, I, I still to this day work with him and it's just, that's how organically it's kind of grown just through relationships and just doing good work for people. And they come to me and they'll refer me to someone else. Like I do, um, you know, some real estate things for, for someone in Remax and it's grown, he's grown his, his brand, uh, so big just with the mailers that he does. And he'll do like, um, like, uh, like a session with people across the country.

[00:23:09] And then I have people from like Salt Lake city, California reaching out to me for real estate. And I'm like, how did this happen? And then I find out that he's referring me over his networking conversations. So that's kind of how it's grown. Well, we'll see what happens after this bricks and risk podcast. Oh yeah. That might get shut down. Episode releases and people are doing rogue brand searches on Google and they come across this episode. I just don't want to bother them sometimes. I'm like, ah, I can't do this.

[00:23:39] Sort of. Um, all right, cool. One of the questions we ask, uh, is what do you love most about what you do? And you had said bringing creative visions to life for others and myself. So what is it about like envisioning things that drives you that you love, you love design? I mean, it's really been my passion since I was, since I was pretty young, just as started with like drawing and things like that. And it's, and it's just developed into this just like ongoing passion where I just like to create things.

[00:24:08] I like to, to make new things and put them into the world, whether it be someone's brand or just, just art in general. It's just making new things and creating them is just, is really what drives me. It's just, it's just, uh, I have like a never ending thirst to just keep creating things. That's awesome, man. I actually remember like high school days, you had this badass, like Jim Morrison, like doors drawing. Like, I think it was like in your room or your desk or something. Like I remember looking at, I was like, did you draw that? And you're like, yeah. I was like, holy crap.

[00:24:38] Like, that's, that's insane. That's funny. I don't even remember that. You know, and, and, uh, I could always, you know, I was always like, you know, decently artistic, but like nowhere near the level that you were. And, you know, you'd see people in the class who were like gifted like you. And you'd see people like me, it was like more like a hobby. Like I like to draw. And I remember just seeing some of your stuff and be like, man, this, this guy, he knows how to create things.

[00:25:06] He knows how to, cause you could draw and conceptualize, which I think is hard. Like some people can just like draw pictures and things like that. Some people can paint, but you can create, like you can create things out of nothing, which I think is, you know, it's a gift. It's, it's hard to do that. Yep. And that's really, really what drives me is this just a creativity and creative drive. Is there ever a project you were working on where you just couldn't get it right? Or you couldn't, no matter what you did, the person was like, no, Brent, this isn't it.

[00:25:34] This isn't what we were looking for. Yeah, that's, that's happened. It's not like writer's block per se, but you know, you do hit, hit these creative walls and you have to kind of keep, um, you know, sometimes go back to the drawing board and just, and just wipe the slate clean and just figure out a new approach to it. Like crumple it up. Just start over in the trash can. To your point when you were talking earlier about, okay, you got it thus far, but like, no, we don't want to start and pick up here.

[00:26:00] Let's, let's kind of go back to the beginning and have that conversation. Yeah. And sometimes it takes multiple rounds. Like, you know, I go into a project expecting myself to be able to, to reach like a resolution that the client is happy with within like three rounds per se. Like that's, that's like the rough estimate, but sometimes, and sometimes I would only like to provide like three options and narrow it down myself.

[00:26:25] But then there are some clients who are just like, show me everything you do and, and I will help you narrow it down from there. So there's some clients where I'll just show like all of my work, you know, and just be like, here's all of my thoughts. Like, is there anything in here that, that like interests you? And, you know, sometimes that's the more effective approach. It's really just depends on the client really. And, you know, sometimes like you'll come to me, you have a vision. You'll come to me, you have a vision. Yeah. Like in the, in the past branding things that we've, we've all done together on the show. Remember my loose leaf? Oh yeah.

[00:26:56] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. The birth of Mooney insurance brokers. And right. You had a pretty clear vision. I kind of knew what I wanted. I drew these things out. I remember Copper Hill was probably not super complex. I think we kind of came to you with like a concept where like, we want it to be like a gas lamp. We want to look like modern, but we want to have like a classic element to it. Right. And then you gave us, I don't know how many treatments and maybe we had to go through a few rounds. Yeah. I do remember some of those sketches that I had for that.

[00:27:24] And it was really just figuring out the exact style of gas lamp that we were going to use for that from what I remember. And for yours, it was really just finding the, like the perfect letter form that really identified what you were going for. And you had a few different ideas, but we like, we simplified and we brought it down to like, you know, the end that it is. That's what I like about you and your approach is like, you can almost take, you know, 50 and you're like, all right, well, what are these like top three? Or like, wait, like where are you leading?

[00:27:55] Part of your process is like, you're leading us through that development phase. And it's like a funnel and like, you're kind of pulling us through the funnel to get us closer. Like one step, you know, is a step closer to the final product. And I think between conversations and different variations that you kind of put together is you're kind of, okay, well, what do you like about this? Yes.

[00:28:22] Those questions are like one of the most important parts about the process is if you say like, I don't like this or I do like this, like, what is it about that? Are you like, what are you feeling? Yeah, exactly. And that's the part of the process where the human element really, really comes into play. And it's effective because it's like, you're without that, right? Without knowing the why. And it's like, you can't just understand intuitively like, this is better than this. Right.

[00:28:52] And there's, you know, with certain clients that I know well, that I've worked with for a long time, there is an intuitive element. Sure. I can kind of understand. You and I have done so many things together. Right. And when you say you don't like something, I kind of know what it was you didn't like. And I can kind of take it from there because we've worked together for so long. Right. But with a new client, they're like, I don't really have that intuitive angle and I have to learn that. Yeah. To like get to know them and figure it out. Like the kid in play flat top on a lightning bolt.

[00:29:18] Or the, you know, or the one was a kid, I guess, that had the dreads coming out. Used to cut the holes at the top of the hat and his dreads would like hang out. I think that was a kid. Was that kid? And play was flat top. Yeah. I think you're right. I think that's right. All right. So can you fact check, you fact check, can play which one was which? All right. So biggest struggle. This is another, another one we like to talk about. So for biggest struggle, you said avoiding burnout and getting past creative blocks as Sean was just talking about. Yep.

[00:29:48] So what's kind of like a, do you have like a solution or method for getting around it? Like when you get to that point, you feel like you hit a wall and you're, you're not getting where you want to go in the amount of time you want to go or you're like, you're hitting a wall. It's like, I thought I knew the direction, but now I have no clue. Like it's like almost a mental block. Like how do you get past something like that? Yeah. So the time thing you mentioned is interesting because like, you know, like if you're like,

[00:30:16] uh, if I'm, if I'm in a situation where I'm billing hourly and there's a budget and I can't go over this amount of time and it's basically like you're, you're constricted, your creativity is constricted to this, like this amount of time that makes it difficult sometimes if you are hitting that, that creative block to get to the end point within that stretch of time. And sometimes you almost have to like, if you can't do it, you almost have to like put in extra time that you're not. Gotcha. Yeah.

[00:30:42] Outside of scope, outside of budget because like, you're not happy with the product. Like, and you know, that's, that's part of where like the decision-making you have to make, like, like, can I get there with just like a few more hours of likes of like this, this or this. And that's, that's part of the struggle really is what you asked about. And that's, that's, that's part of the struggle is, is really just honing your creativity into sometimes like a timeframe. Awesome, man.

[00:31:09] Outside of Copper Hill, Mooney Insurance, Tim Garty team, Bricks and Risks, what was like the most fun you had on a project? Those all being number one equal? Yeah. Like one A, one B, one C. No bias. Uh, I mean, that's the most fun. Yeah, like not because it was the end product, but like a fun collaborative, like where you really just enjoyed working on it.

[00:31:39] I mean, I think the, the, we had a nice stretch of time with Copper Hill. Yeah. That I really enjoyed it. We worked on so many different things. We worked on so many different things and we really built it from like the ground up. Yeah. And it went so many different directions, like the different things you were creating. I love the map in the office. Oh, that was great. That was fun too. Badass. And like the entryway thing behind the, uh, behind the second, like behind like the desk. Dude, you helped build our culture. Like that's legit. And it was cool walking into that office. Once all that, once all of that was done, it felt like.

[00:32:08] You're like, man, I like design this place. You're like, really grew up. You're like, this is pretty cool. And like just going into that office, I think that was one of the coolest experiences. Yeah. I remember we used to have like our monthly meetings and you all come in. And I remember one time you were like, dude, this is like, it's pretty bad that you guys made it here. Like, and like my work is everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere you would look. It was even like, you'd walk into the conference room and we'd have the, uh, the banners that you could pull up that we would have at like our conference annual events.

[00:32:35] Like you even helped us like design stuff for print, for banners, you know, for training, for marketing, you know, for our website, you know. Social media. A lot of the social media things that we did. Tokens, you know, like all sorts of like little things. I would come in and see different merch when I would pop in. Oh, wow. This is cool. This is really growing. It was, it was really cool to watch that grow. Yeah. Chots keys, like office space. Chots keys. Did you guys have any? Oh yeah. Where's your flare? Yeah. How many pieces of flare do you have? Ping pong paddles. We used to rock flare.

[00:33:06] All right. So tip, tip for our listeners and watchers, you had said, prioritize what it takes to build your brand right. And establishing that equity upfront is the keystone to your business. Why do you feel like that's a good thing to pass on to people that are checking us out? It's like a cart before the horse situation. I feel like a lot of people try and rush, rush past this part of the process thinking like, oh, I'll just develop it later. But like. That looks fine. But your first contact points without having that established.

[00:33:34] Are like missed opportunities to establish that equity. Like you, you're basically like going in and you're not getting the amount of respect that your business should have right away because you haven't developed that part right away. Right. And, you know, putting in that work upfront and just prioritizing that upfront will give you a lot of equity and recognizability like moving forward. And those are all missed opportunities that you, all those touch points that you've established without having that established.

[00:34:03] It's a first impression. Yeah. First impressions are huge. And if you have this, if your first impression is like a misfit, unprofessional type of logo or media kit or whatever it might be, then that's going to weigh on a decision, you know, to work with you as a business or not. Right. Exactly. I think it's huge too. And, and, um, it's like, you have to build it as part of your business plan as a priority.

[00:34:31] And it's not always a priority in the front end of people's business plan. Like they're concerned about this or that, like any other thing. And maybe that's like, like a middle step of the process, but I'm, I'm just trying to champion that being in the beginning of the process. It's like, if you go to a website for someone, you're, you could be turned off like in an instant. Right. Because you're like, well, I'm not doing business with them. It was just a template or something. Yeah. Yeah. I remember you had said, um, one episode, I can't remember when it was.

[00:34:58] And you were saying, we were talking about your brand, the Moody Insurance Brokers brand, which you designed. And you had said like, so many of the independent brokerages don't even have a brand. No. They just write their name at the top, Johnson Insurance or whatever it is. And you know, they're like, we don't need a brand. Like we're selling a commodity. It's through relationships or whatever. We bought a book of business, whatever it is. And I remember even when you hit the scene, what, like 12, 13 years ago, 12 years ago,

[00:35:28] like that was a standout brand in my opinion, because no one really had that in insurance. Well, here's, here's something too. So like we work with real estate people and mortgage people, and we're always sending paperwork. Yep. And one of the most common things is for a new home purchase, we have to send a certificate. Certificate's like, here's your coverage. Here's the date it starts. Gives all the details. I whitewash mine and put my logo on that form. Do you?

[00:35:55] So that every real estate and mortgage person, because they'll, they'll never see a logo or a brand or any type of identifier, they'll see like a written text. Yeah, exactly. You know? But for me, it's like, I want to stand out. I'm using that. You want them to see the brand. Yeah. Because they're like, oh, well, what is this? We've never seen this before. Right? Like who, and then it's like, well, who is this? And why are they doing this? Or why are they taking the time to add this to the paperwork?

[00:36:26] Right? Yeah. It's kind of like, not like a calling card, but it's. It is. It becomes identifiable. People see the brand and doesn't necessarily have to say the name of the company next to it or underneath it or above it. It'll just, you'll be like, I know that brand. That's that. I think it's also a certain level of professionalism that you want to achieve. You know, like if you don't have it, it looks like you haven't put the time in to develop it. And like, it just, it just doesn't get you to a certain level of professionalism. I feel like. Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:36:56] Uh oh. Thousand and ten percent. All right. What do we got here? Is this a surprise? It's got the official logo. So it obviously has to start. Yeah. I did use. Thank God. But not, I do have a bag full of. You got decent. You got decent penmanship there. You wrote that? We've seen the sketches. Yeah, we have. It's true. You've seen my work. So am I opening this? You're opening it. All right. Let's start first. This is actually. A guest on a show. This is just a thank you from Tim and I. It's an unboxing. Right, right. Yeah. It's ASMR.

[00:37:26] We're going to put this on YouTube. It's an ASMR video. Card break. My kid watches the kids open packs of cards. This is packed really well, guys. What's going on here? I don't know. I haven't even seen it yet. So you're. I'm going to be as surprised as you are. Just a thank you for all your work along the way. Oh, this is feeling like some drinkware, guys. Ooh. Look at this. What do we got here? We got a set of 12. You know that I. Did you see me post these? Love it. Love it. Nice work.

[00:37:55] What do we got here? It's got the gold rim. And it's by this artist. I can't remember the name on here. Look at this. Tell a story, Brandon. Clue him in. This guy. There it is right there. So I'll let you tell the story. How many is there? Four in here? I think there's two. Oh, nice. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Very cool. I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be Brandon Murch. That's next episode. Yeah. I thought it was going to be more rogue shit, basically. Thank you. Appreciate it. What's the story on this?

[00:38:23] So these are from, I want to say the 70s. My parents had these. Oh, no way. That's cool. And you want to tell the story about the artist? I don't know all the details. All I know was the post-en-out that you had. Yeah. So I just really, I think those things are really awesome. It's very classic. Classic. Happy holidays. I love the fun. It always has like a Philly vibe to it. Yeah. With that type. And they're a collector. And I knew that that guy's name was going to be on there.

[00:38:52] It's like a thing. That's awesome. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Very cool, man. All right. So in the quote you gave us was, I strive for two things in design, simplicity and clarity. Great design is born of those two things by Linden Leader. Why was that the quote you chose? Linden Leader, pretty sure I chose that because, you know the FedEx logo? Oh, yeah. With the arrow? That's who designed it. Really? So that's a person that-

[00:39:22] Some people don't see that. I mean, once you see it, you can't unsee it. Yeah, exactly. So that's a designer that I probably use the quote as because I'm just like this, like I find like the simplicity and just like the crisp legibility and the simplicity is really like will set you apart. And like you can put cool things into the design without like really going over the top. I like the subtle detail, like the arrow and the FedEx logo. And that's why I use that quote. That's cool. All right.

[00:39:52] Before we shut this one down, why don't you tell our listeners and watchers where they can learn more about you and everything you got going on? So you can email me at any time, brent.bush at gmail.com. Always a good way to start the conversation. My portfolio is online. It's brent- Brent Bush Design. Brent Bush Design.com. So you can see a lot of my work there. I haven't updated it recently, but it's one of the things in 2025. I want to get a lot of my 2024 work up on that site. So I'll be getting that up on there soon.

[00:40:23] Insta, you got good Insta material. I try to share some design insights, but not all design. Mix it with a little bit of lifestyle and things like that, like you do as well with yours. And you can find me there. I sometimes post client work if I get so inspired to catch up on some of my work on there. Appreciate it, man. Awesome. All right. That's all we have for this one, folks. Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you soon.

[00:40:53] Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BNR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.