Reputation Over Riches & Building Mortgage Trust with Tom Mellett | Episode 111

You got me on sale last year. The sale's over. Now you got to pay full price. So they're bringing people in, they're making like twenty thousand dollars a year more than me. And I'm training them. So it can't be time for my raise or my review. I'm like, yeah, we got to talk, you know? And um, yeah, I got every lecture in a book as to, you know, we can't do that. You know, we you know, we can't give that big of a raise. And uh uh these were my exact words to this guy. I was I was like, my man, listen, you're looking at this the wrong way. You got me on sale last year, the sale's over, now you gotta pay full price.

Damn!

Love that line. And um, yeah, he basically wanted to kill me. So they they came back, they gave me like a a six thousand dollar raise, which was nothing.

Yep.

And um, yeah, and and it was take it or leave it was his exact words to me. I was like, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna take it, but I'm gonna be honest with you, it's not gonna keep me from looking for another job either.

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Right here, guys. Reach out to John Sachs and his team at Property Management Redefine. We'll take good care of you. I'm Tim Garrity. And I'm Tim Garrity's co-host, Sean Mooney. Today, Sean, we have another local expert, a mortgage expert. We have Tom Mellett, branch manager with Keswick Mortgage Group. How are you doing today, Tom? Doing great, guys. How are you? Thank you for having me. Awesome. Thanks for coming in. So a little background on Tom. He's a 24-year veteran of the mortgage industry, and he recently left the largest retail lender in the country to start his own, Keswick Mortgage Group. Shout out to Glenside. That's right. Tommy is laser focused on delivering an exceptional mortgage experience at unmatched rates. The keys to a successful transaction for him are simple. Communication, communication, communication. He's a proud graduate of both Bishop Devitt High School.

Correct. Shout out.

Go Lancers. There we go. And Penn State University. Go Nets. And he's the father of two boys. I get all that right?

Got it all right.

All right. So let's start off this one with something you love, which are cars. Let's do it.

So you're a car.

You're a car guy, you own a bunch of cars, fix cars, flip cars. Why cars?

So I grew up uh in the car business. Uh my my father owned a uh dealership and uh car rental agency for 35 years. Same location. Actually, well, within a block of each other. Grew it and bought a bigger uh building down the street. But um it's honestly what I thought I was gonna do as a career path. Um I I I like it. I you know, I I I love it, I enjoy it. Um my father's probably one of the best guys you'll ever meet in your life. We just um weren't necessarily a great fit working together as as happens with family register. Sometimes that's inevitable. Um shout out to my pop. Love you, you know, it's cool. In all the best terms possible. I I I would I would say he and I have a much better relationship because we wound up not working together. That's cool. Um but I I've uh I've always kind of done the car thing on the side. I mean, I've without without I couldn't tell you how many cars I've owned personally. Not I'm not even talking about cars I've flipped. Um I'm gonna say the number's well north of 200. Whoa. Um I've had a lot of motorcycles that like those too. Um I just I I enjoy it. You ever own a Monte Carlo? I have not. No. I have not, but I mean I I could definitely hook you up in a nice one. I mean, we'll get you some tea topic. Hook it up like Denzel on training day. It'd be roaming. Everybody's gonna be getting their insurance from me at the end of it. No, it's got the Hummer. Mooney's got the Monty's. Mooney's got the Monty. It's Mooney's Monty. Yeah. Mooney's Monty. I love that.

Sorry, can we get the we'll just right here, we'll get that picture of the uh placard up Mooney's Monty.

So were you all right? So here's a good question. So your dad's an entrepreneur and was running his business. So you kind of grew up in it. Did was that kind of like your high school college job too? Like how how did you like get uh get involved in that to realize it's like, yo, I love you, Dad, but like probably not gonna work together.

So my dad opened his business in uh 1988. So, you know, I was 10 years old. So I mean, you know, I I saw him, you know, work and he he worked in the car industry um you know prior to that. He his whole life he did.

Wait, was it on Eastern Road?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right across the right up by the the mini golf and uh Copper BH.

Yeah, yeah, it's exactly where it was. Yeah, yeah. Um so you know, I kind of you know, why I mean it's 10 years old. I didn't really know exactly what was going on, but I was old enough to realize that he like he was now his own boss um and you know eventually, you know, kind of learned the lessons as the as to why he did it that way and everything. So it was um it was a great example to grow up around. And um when I was twelve years old, I think, um I got my first job at McNally's in Chestnut Hill.

Yeah, shout out to McNally's and the Schmitter. Schmitter. Um so I uh among other yummy things, chicken cheesesteak number one.

If you haven't had a chicken cheesesteak, it's the best chicken cheesesteak.

I think I had it one time when I was here with you because you insisted. So it is really good. And actually, full disclosure, I'm not I'm probably like the only person ever worked there. I'm not a fan of the Schmitter. Hey, we struggled with different folks. Get out. Yeah, I'm done. Get out. Thanks, guys. Um, but I um so uh Ann McNally was uh was my neighbor, she lived a block behind me. Oh no way, and um she had a uh I I can't believe I remember this, she she she had a black lab, his name was Clancy, and uh I love the dog, and like we didn't have a dog as a kid, and I'm like, I'm a dog nut too. Yeah, so um I used to like literally like just walk around the block, like just to like bump into her to like see the dog and play with them. And um she eventually gave me a like a job, like walking the dog. So um that's kind of how I started, and that's how our relationship got going. And then she offered me a job at the bar, so I was like 12 years old. Oh wow, carrying in cases of beer from the alley out back and stacking. You're in the bar basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is it the alley out back or the dungeon basement down below?

Like a wheel, it was it was wheels to get it up from the it was from the alley to the dungeon. Yeah. Um, I I remember getting stuck in the walk-in one time with the door closing behind me and not knowing how to open it. Um, so you know, I probably wasn't their best employee. But um, you know, that that just sort of set the tone. You know, I I I learned very early on that, you know, if I wanted something, you know, to to work for it. Yep. And um, yeah, the other really bad one of the other really valuable lessons my dad taught me was uh was saving. So you know, it's like listen, yeah, you're working now, half of it goes in the bank, half of it you do whatever the hell you want with. And um, you know, I I've tried to obviously with you know expenses and family and everything, saving 50% of your income is pretty difficult these days. Um but just that idea of you know, A, working for something that you want, B setting a goal, and then you know, backing your way into like, all right, well, how am I gonna get to it? Um and C, you know, just that concept of saving, um, you know, so you have everyone you need it, you know, we're all instilled in me, you know, relatively young. That's awesome. Really good stuff.

That's uh it's a very similar story, right? Like, I you know, I saw I saw my parents, you know, my mom and and our family like owned a business. And I think seeing your mom's side of the family, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh and I think seeing that early on, uh if you're not exposed to it earlier, I think it's a harder leap.

Yeah, I agree. It it's really kind of I feel like the same thing. My dad, full commissioned loan officer for over 40 years, you know, and like my grandfather was commercial real estate guy, owned his own commercial brokerage, and I think even did that like in his fifties. But to your point, it's almost like happening in your life and you really don't even know it. And then it it it's your normal. It's bits of wisdom almost being like passed down to you subliminally through like conversation or like they're just telling you things when you're young.

Osmosis.

There you go. Osmosis. Um no, that's a really good point.

And so you I think you're more so a lot of people have this fear that like, oh, I can't, I can't give up my W-2. Right, right? Like they they clutch onto it like what would I do? You know what I mean? Right. Yeah and I think if you grow up in that where like your family owns a business or some entrepreneurial track that you grew up with, you're more comfortable going that route than maybe someone else that just never was exposed to it.

Fear of the unknown, right? Yeah, I mean it it's you know, obviously there's there's some unknown going into any, you know, new venture.

Yeah.

But you you know, I th I think, you know, to your point, like having that exposure to it and experience and growing up around it, um you're right, it it it it kind of mitigates the fear a bit, I think. Um you know, and and you know, proof of concept, right? Like you you saw it work, like you saw somebody else do this and this is their work ethic. So, all right, well, if I can follow that, you know, f follow that that plan or guideline or whatever the hell you want to call it, um you know, mine's gonna work too. Yep.

If it wasn't mortgages for you, would you do beat-owned cars in some form or fashion, you think?

Probably. Um Yeah, on the mortgages. Minus the minus the family aspect of things. So I I I still actually do buy and sell cars on the side, and it was kind of like a a hobby that that sort of turned into like a side business.

Um So you were you were being for real with that Monte Carlo. Yeah.

Oh yeah, okay, I'll go get you one. All right. 100%.

I still got my 5.0 Mustang. Do you watch that do you watch that show where they call up people and they're like, I want this car, and these guys scour the country? I forgot what the name of it's a great show.

It's very scripted, but uh you know, yeah, it's the concept. Right. Yeah, yeah. There's car people. Um yeah, no, it and and that's exactly it. It it's like any other industry. It's like a network, right? So like I can tell you, I I could name you probably five people right now that own Monte Carlos. I could probably if if it was the right number, I could probably get all five of them to sell them. You know, yeah. Um it it's you know, you you kind of it's like anything else, you know. That for as many people in the real estate industry, the insurance industry, it's a small world, right? Yeah, you know, we all kind of know each other, you know, or at least know of each other.

Right.

Car world's no different. Yeah. You know, it's you know, I I could tell you, I might not remember that guy's name, but I know the car. Yeah. You know, if I see him walking the street, that's guy's got the 56 Chevy, you know, or whatever.

You probably got VIN numbers. I could probably like ask you for VIN numbers and you're like beautiful mind, like, oh yeah, that one ends in six, seven, eight, nine.

You might be giving me a little too much credit there. But um, but yeah, I mean it's it's it's something. It's your number, right?

So like it's the same thing that we do, just in a different uh industry, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and it's I I will say, like, you know, to to answer your question though, uh I so like I said, the cars are sort of like side business, right? And yeah, we you know, do something you love, you never work a day in your life. I don't know if I agree with that. Like you kind of you kind of start to hate it a little bit because no matter what you're in, there's gonna be problems, there's gonna be work, there's gonna be stress. It's a grind, it's always gonna be a grind. So it it's uh I uh my answer is yeah, I would probably do it, but uh as a little uh you know side note to that, I I don't know that I would necessarily be as much of a car enthusiast as I as I am if I did it.

Yeah, the scarcity kind of creates more of a passion than uh you know all right.

So we got you know, we got the McNally story, which I did not know. That's awesome. Oh, awesome. Working working with your pop. Um where did mortgages come into play?

So mortgages came into play. So uh I worked for my pop all through high school. Um first year of colleges. I went uh college, I went to um, you know, Penn State Ogon's, stayed home, worked, saved money, and then I went up to uh Penn State, Maine, and like I was basically like a dog when the leash breaks. Um I mean I I think I had like 70 credits done at Ogon's and I still had to take like a summer class to graduate after going to Maine. Uh that's all you do. That's what it's all about. You can read between the lines and class time in here. You go up there, you go and party. Yeah, so um, and I did have a job up there too. I worked at the airport, which actually was fun as hell to work in. Oh way. Um, that was like its own little like community and network too, and like there was all kinds of crazy stuff that because I worked there at night. Um, you know, it was only like four flights that come in at night, so it was a lot of downtime. Yeah. Um, so you can you know you can imagine what what was going on up there.

Um That would be like you working at Friendlies and only four people come in for dinner at nighttime.

You can imagine what would go on if the kitchen got lively, you know? Right. Yeah and I work with Russ Nelson. Shout out to Russ Nelson. Russ Russ's birthday was yesterday, right? Yes. Uh happy birthday, Russ. Might actually be today.

Well, maybe it was yesterday.

Yeah, I think you're right. Yesterday. Yeah.

Terry, can you fact check that when Russ's birthday was? Yes. I reached out either way.

Shout out, shout out to Russ, though, either way.

I can't keep track of my days.

All right, so you're at Penn State, Maine. Yeah, so Penn State, Maine. Uh graduated, came home, uh, worked with my pop for maybe about a year. Um and you know, th there's there's a little more to the story I'm not gonna get into, but you know, long story short, it just didn't work out. So I um I needed a job. So I took a job with this um company in Norstown was like a commercial property maintenance. And uh yeah, my title is like an account manager, but basically what we did was um we got these contracts from these big like corporations and uh their main focus was all like interior like janitorial services, uh you know, like floors and windows and stuff like that. And right at the time I joined, they got into um they got their first exterior contract, and it was with right aid drugstores. So we had um like the the landscaping for it, and it was yeah, little things, you know, like you know like they would have like a little planner bed or you know, like parking lot sweeping and things like that. And then that winter we expanded into snow plowing, and we happened to have a really brutal winter that year. Like even like stores down south were getting snow. So my job was to find subcontractors in the area to take them and like the margins these people were holding were insane.

Snow. I mean snow.

Well, yeah, but I mean the contractors were getting screwed. Like, you know, like a yeah, they might be playing paying us five hundred dollars per push and a contractor's getting 120 bucks. Yeah. You know, so um so I did that job for a year and um I yeah, I was making like no money. I mean, I was like fresh out of college basically. And um it was time for my annual review, you know, and and and raise. And in the meantime, uh my it was myself and another guy that started this exterior division, I think in the year I think we were like 14 people, but we did so we you know expanded pretty quickly. So they're bringing people in, they're making like twenty thousand dollars a year more than me, and I'm training them. So it gave me time for my raise or my review, I'm like, yeah, we gotta talk, you know. And um, yeah, I got every lecture in a book as to, you know, we can't do that, you know, we you know, we can't give that big of a raise. And uh uh these were my exact words to this guy. I was like, my man, listen, you're looking at this the wrong way. You got me on sale last year, the sale's over, now you gotta pay full price. I love that one. And um, you know, he basically wanted to kill me. So they they came back, they gave me like a a six thousand dollar raise, which was nothing. Yeah, and um, yeah, and and it was take it or leave, it was his exact words to me. And I was like, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna take it. But I'm gonna be honest with you, it's not gonna keep me from looking for another job either. And um about a month later, I quit. I gave my notice, you know, did it two weeks, you know, did it the right way. And um the president of the company, who I had a pretty good relationship with, you know, came out to me. He's like, I was like, I heard you're leaving. And he was he was a car guy too, which is sort of like how we would talk. And um he had just bought a new, at the time, like an E46 um BMW M3. And uh he's like, you know, he's like, I heard you leave and he's like, I can't believe he's like, Why are you leaving? And I looked at him, I was like, because I want to drive an M3 too, you know, and uh and I left. So and I just bought my first house. Oh wow so um you bought young. I did, I was 23. Yeah, that's young.

Um wait, you bought a house and then you quit your job.

Yeah, yeah, like like two months later. Yeah, right.

That's like when I started my uh insurance office, and then we were like pregnant like two months later. I'm like, oh, this is this is not good.

Yeah, yeah. I um so I I I trust me, like I had some like, what in the hell am I doing thoughts. Um, but I will say my my first house, it was actually right up the street, it was on Osborne Street. Nice. Okay. Um you guys remember T. Hogan's up there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. That was like our spot. Yeah, we love that place. So I had um I had two of my buddies living with me. They were each paying me 400 bucks a month in rent. My mortgage all the way in taxes insurance was $792. Wow. I would kill to have that again. Hell yeah. Manniac, Manniac Rocky. T.

Hogan's, didn't they have like Guinness Night on Thursdays or something?

Once you got friendly with them, it was Guinness Knight. I'm a big Guinness drinker. Sweet little bar.

I remember I was like, it's Thursday, let's go get uh the Lisa Hickan something now.

Um and they always had really cold Miller High Life. I I love Miller High Life, and people laugh at me when I ordered at places, like in a PV order, and like, oh, let's get great goose martini, let me get this. I'm like, yeah, high life. Like, yeah, they look at me like, who the hell is this guy? But I'll tell you what.

I was like when my bar was crescent in. Oh yeah. So I and and it was Yingling. Love the Crescent. Shout out to the Crescent Manioc. I want it in a can.

So I I I can't drink lager, I don't like it. Yeah. But um That's what I wanted to treat myself. But I get highlight favorite because nobody else drinks it, it's always cold. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's been around for 120 years for a reason. Like let's let's let's be honest. Champagne and beers, baby.

Champagne and beers. Nick DiCarlo's a big uh big highlight fan. Highlight fan.

Gotta love those clear bottles. Nick Nick and I would get along famously. Um so uh my buddies, like I said, they each pay me 400 bucks a month in rent. So I would my mortgage was covered. Yeah, yeah. And I have free labor. Yeah. So we we I had the house for I don't know like two and a half years, and um we put a kitchen in it, bathroom, put a deck off the back, central air, and finished the basement. I spent like 10 grand. Yeah. You know, and like, you know, we did it because you know, like everybody was like, oh yeah, like we're gonna have people over, yeah, like make the place nice, you know. So it was it was great. So um, so yeah, so I I you know I figured the hell I might as well quit my job too. Yeah. Um But the the reason I quit was um I was kind of like starting to like feel like and I had a couple buddies who were selling mortgages that were, you know, same thing, they were young and making really good money. Yeah. And yeah, I just gotten a mortgage. I don't understand half the stuff the guy said to me, you know. And um, yeah, my buddy Mike, I said, I don't know. Like, I'm like, so just like walk me through it. Like, like what exactly do you do? And he tells me, and I'm like, dude, this is what I do now. Like, I'm selling these poor bastards on taking these contracts that they're getting screwed on. You're giving people something like they actually want, like, they're coming to you for it. I'm like, that's how this works. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm like, all right, sign me up. And uh never looked back. That was 25 years ago.

Was that for like a small bank? Was that for like a big loan company?

Who would I'm actually embarrassed to admit this, but I will. Yeah. Um, let's do it. So I'm I'm gonna preface this by saying it the best lesson I got out of that was what not to do in business. Oh, all right. Um, yeah. So it was with uh AmeriQuest Mortgage Company, who is no longer a huge subprime lender back in the day. Okay, yep. And called on pretty quick. I only worked for them for about six months. I called on like pretty quickly that like this doesn't really seem like it's sustainable for a lot of these. What, around like 2001, 2002, somewhere around there?

2001, 2000, 2001.

Wait, so if you had to like put it on a scale and you You were selling these contracts to the subcontractors or selling these loans to people? Which one kind of tipped uh higher than the other? As far as like uh from a moral standpoint, like you got squeamish about like selling this or that?

I was I would say I was more squeamish about the mortgages. The the contractors had a choice whether or not to contract if it made sense or not. Um I think a lot of people that were getting these mortgages didn't really understand what they were getting. It's people. And and and it was you know, they they say that term predatory lending and it it it's it's very uh accurate.

Trevor Burrus And what were the signals like early on? So you didn't know mortgages, you didn't know what was going on.

So you got in, started working, taking out the. I didn't, but I like I you know like I'm pretty good at math. Like I I could understand like if you have two thousand dollars a month coming in and your bills are twenty five hundred dollars a month, no matter how much money you have in the bank, you're eventually gonna run out.

Yeah. And you know, they they they were one of like the um sell, sell, sell, like Wolf of Wall Street get in there and sell, sell, sell and ring a bell.

But but but also it like it was um like if the deal didn't work, you would just make it a stated income deal.

Find a way to make it work.

Right. So you know, if you have somebody who's a W-2 employee, the only reason you ever have to make that a stated income deal is because you're lying about how much money they make to give them a loan they can't afford to pay back. Correct. So I'm like, all right, like I don't really think this is like the right way to operate. Um but like I said, it was it was a good lesson in what not to do, you know.

Yeah.

Um so my manager that was there um left. And when she left, she she went to um another company out of Texas that was very short-lived, too. It was called Aegis Lending. And um, like these guys from Texas, like, you know, they've they got like the hats and the boots, and yeah, they're claiming to be Christians and all this stuff, you know. And it was the the the same deal in a different package. I'm like, eh no, like I don't think this is this is right, you know. So I um my my neighbor on Osborne Street was also in the mortgage business. He he worked for um yeah, so he worked for shout out to Billy Nicholson. Everybody in Rocksburg. Oh yeah, I know Billy. Everybody knows Billy. Yeah, so um he's a legend. So um Billy was working for a company in um Conchahok, and it was like a legit company. And uh not cowboy hats and boots and no, no, yeah. He was he he was legit, and you know, he he was Bill was also into like motorcycles and stuff, so like and we we got like friendly on that as well. And um we um you know we started talking and um like you know why don't we just do this ourselves? And uh at the time it it was a great partnership, you know, like a lot of partnerships.

What year was that just to time stamp it?

2007?

No, no, no, no.

Like like like 2003, maybe? Oh, okay. I was only about a year and a half in the industry at this point.

Gotcha. Um but even still, so a year and a half to a mortgage, and you're like, hey, let's start our own thing.

Yeah, it's that entrepreneurial bug. And it was um it was great. And and truth be told, and I I would be willing to bet you that he would echo the same thing if you had him in here. Neither one of us could have done it without the other one at the time. Yeah, like I I didn't have the network and the connections that he had, yeah. But I knew how to run the business. Yep. So and that's kind of how we like divided it up. Like, hey, listen, like you drive stuff through the door, sales, and I'll get it closed.

You had like complementary skill sets, right? It's like it's sales in a minute. Copper Hill. This is the story of Copper Hill. All three of us had different skill sets, that's how we set out. Right. Hey everyone, this is Tim, your favorite bricks and risk co-host. But don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth, so if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now, back to the show.

And and it, you know, they they compliment each other and they work, you know, and and it's you know, a recipe for success. And um we we did really well with it. I mean, you know, we we were pretty young, making pretty good money. Um, you know, not necessarily making the smartest decisions with that money at the time, like a lot of people, but um you know, but you know, we we we we did okay. I mean, everybody came out unscathed, and then um we he he and I had um a little bit of falling out, but it like the market was starting to slow down a lot too.

Yeah.

And um what, 2006 now? 2008. This would be like the end of 07. Um so we um you know, we we we kind of just sort of like, all right, like the pot's kind of getting too small for both of us to pull from it the way we want to. Like there's no point in both of us trying to make a living out of what's you know, what we're netting after you know after everything, you know. And we we had an agreement going in that if one of us wanted it out, we had to be willing to accept what we wanted from the other one first. So um, you know, we sat down. I was like, listen, man, like you know, if if if you want it, just you know, throw me a number. If if you want me to keep it, like I'll throw you a number and you know, we'll we'll we'll go from there. And um he decided he wanted to keep it and he he did well with it for a little while after that. Um and then, you know, you know, unfortunately for him, just bad timing, like you know, like oh eight, oh nine happened and um you know it it kind of sunk it. And um I actually I I didn't completely get out of the business, but I actually went back for about a year or so and worked with my dad again too in the car business. Um, wholesaling cars and um you know, doing some stuff like around the shop, and then I still kept you know the the mortgage business going, but it it like I almost kind of did it hate to say part-time, but in reality it wasn't it was such a slow time, yeah. There like there wasn't really like there wasn't enough to be able to do it.

There was nothing like there was no business, right? Like 2008 to 2010 has got to be like one of the slowest periods like in US history of like real estate. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I mean everything, you know, I mean was foreclosures left and right. No one did anything.

Um did you guys compete with Diamond?

I remember Diamond. Diamond? Yep. Uh Diamond Auto leasing, yeah.

So they were down uh East Oh yeah.

So I remember that um so Andy Diamond leasing was Andy Diamond. Yeah, he's actually a great guy.

Yeah.

Um he's still in the business. Oh um he um not there, no, yeah, no, so he he sold that business to um to a good buddy of mine, his name's Ralph Dinopoli. Um and then Ralph sold it a couple years ago and moved down to Florida, and uh Andy still has a office where he you know still wholesales cars and does some leasing um out of um Joey Marino shop in Willow Grove at uh Autobahn Motorsports.

Genny Joey?

Yep. Yep. Nice, different, different, but you know. Um so um so yeah, yeah, they were uh I just I don't know, I don't even want to say like competitor or it's more like you would know each other just because your proximity and what you guys are. You're all in the same circles and in the same area.

Gus is Gus's dad bought like 15 cars from there or something, like every car. He had a great reputation.

Yeah. Nice. Um all right, so falling out, first mortgage business you started. Go back to dad. You're working, you're working with your pop. You're like, hey, let's let's get back into business together.

It was a fun time we worked for my dad, too, because at that point, like my dad was um buying and selling like a lot of exotic cars. My dad's a big car guy, too. So yeah, you have a bunch of like you know, Ferraris and like you know, 9-11 turbos and things like that. So it was uh yeah, it's it was some cool stuff to be around, you know.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So then what was your next step after that? So after that, you you've always kind of kept one foot in the mortgage business.

Yeah, yeah. So I I I stayed in and um, you know, the again, you know, things sort of have a way of like, hey, I like like yeah, I guess this is why we weren't working together, you know. Um so um I uh mortgages were starting to pick back up a little bit, and I was like, you know what, like if if I'm gonna do this, like I really like I I gotta do it committed, like I gotta just gotta you know, be smart when it's good so that I can ride it out when it's bad. Yeah, yeah. And um and that's what I did. And I I I just you know kind of like rebuild it almost from the ground up, um you know, set up a lot of new um, you know, partner relationships, yeah. Um kind of started like really like working my sphere again. I have I can even tell you how many. Like if you look at my phone, there's probably six or seven thousand phone numbers on my phone. Yeah. I have every client I've ever had. I still have their number on my phone. I'm like that too.

Um so when you when you start so what year is that when you were like I gotta get committed, get it full time, get this thing going?

That was 2010, I believe. Uh yeah, two thousand two yeah, two thousand ten. And was that like on your own, or what was the no, so um to to really like get back into full time, um, I took a job at uh GMAC in Fort Washington.

Oh yeah.

And um it was totally interesting role. Um Stevenson worked there uh doing it.

He did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was uh yeah, it was it was um and it was mostly like portfolio retention work, so it was a lot of like inbound stuff, which was good because it was steady at least, you know. And yeah, met some great people there, made some really good relationships. And um after I was there for about a year, they decided to um launch a retail division again, which they had had previously. Yeah, they actually had like a bunch of brick and mortar places at the time.

They actually had an insurance, a whole other insurance department.

Yeah, that was a big operation. Yeah. Um yeah, it was it it was it was huge. I mean, you know, it was in the old um expo center. Yeah, I mean, it's a really nice place. Yeah. So um when they launched, I I hated the the inside sales thing. Yeah, I just I was I was doing well, yeah, but I I just I didn't like it. Like for you. Yeah, it was like chain to a desk all day. Yeah, you're making a hundred phone calls a day. Like, that's not me. That's not how I work. Yeah. Um, you know, they're listening to your calls. Hey, you know, you said this, you listen. I'm like, listen, that's how I talk. Like, you know, and leave it. The client didn't seem to mind, so let's let's just roll with him, close the deal, you know. Um so uh so so when they launched the uh the retail division, uh I applied and they initially told me no. And uh I I was like that's weird because like basically all my experience is we listened to you on the phone.

I don't think this is gonna work at all.

That's not gonna apply the image we portray here in GMAC. Um so fortunately I got introduced to the guy who was the uh the sales manager for the team. And um, yeah, he was just on site one day. You know, we started talking and hit it off. And um he's like, Yeah, he's like, You got a lot of like experience on like you know, the the the retail side of this. He's like, you know, you got any interest? I'm like, funny, you should ask. Oh yeah. Like I was told that I don't I'm not qualified. And he's like, why don't you come work with me? So um, so I was the uh I was the first hire for that uh retail division, first salesperson hire for uh for that retail division. It was it was a lot of fun. Um I I I enjoyed it for for quite a while. Um, but you know, eventually just a another better opportunity presented itself. Yeah. And um I took it. And um yeah, just the pretty much every move since then's been, you know, a move for the better. Um, you know, some lessons learned along the way, which pretty much are invaluable, I would say.

What's so great about your story is that it really ties into like a lot of what we talk about here, which is which is relationships. Right. It's like you even get to know Billy. It's like, yo, he he lives right there. Right. And then you're jumping into it there, and then you go to GMAC and you you meet the person who's doing the you know the line of work you want.

Right.

And, you know, the McNally's and the cars, and you know, like what what I find just so valuable about all that is that, you know, it's not necessarily like, well, I need to go do this because I'm really smart or I'm good on the phone or I'm good at sales. Like you were just meeting the right people, probably asking the right questions, and then there was just an opportunity. You can either take or leave the opportunity. I used to say this all the time, my wife Maria, until I'm like blue in the face. I'm like, there are opportunities all day, every day. You either take them or you leave them. Some people leave every opportunity out there, and some people see the you know the right ones and they're like, you know what, I'm gonna give that a shot. I feel like that's got some legs and I can really do something with it. Um, which, you know, I want to dive into some of some of the harder things we talk about too, which is really like biggest struggle. And you had said biggest struggle for you is delegating tasks. So you had your own mortgage operation before, you know, you had GMAC, your loan officer for cross-country for for a while. Yeah. And you recently, shout out to Keswick Mortgage Group, decided to go back out on your own, I did, do your own thing again, which puts delegating tasks right at number one. Yeah, it does. When you run your own business. So, why is delegating tasks been been a struggle for you?