Episode #7: "Brand It Like Serhant" with Ryan Serhant

Have you always been that way? Have you always like, all right, everybody's going that way in that direction? I'm gonna go this way. Has that always been like in your DNA?

I mean, I just sort of want to do what I like to do. And I don't want anyone else to tell me otherwise. Like I I I don't know any other way to do it. Yeah, I think like sales, right? Sales is a transfer of enthusiasm and confidence. Um, and I I just don't believe I listen, all my friends in college all went on to become investment bankers or attorneys, or they went to med school. And then there was me. I'm like, I'm gonna go do theater in New York City.

Like, go have someone take pictures of my hands and make some money.

You ever Google Brian Surhand Hand model? No, I should have. Do it right now. You got computers in front of you. It's a weird trip.

Welcome to the podcast dedicated to real estate, insurance, and everything in between. Join us as we take you along our own brokerage building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of business experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Tim Garrety. And I'm Sean Mooney. And today, Sean, we have an amazing guest, very special one, someone that I have personally looked up to for the better part of a decade. Ryan Sirhant, president, founder, CEO of the brokerage Surhant.

Well, thank you for having me. If you're just listening to this, the guys are clapping for me, and it's very nice of them. Well, we appreciate you.

Welcome to the show, Ryan. We appreciate you coming. So Ryan has been a complete success story since he hit his stride in real estate 15 years ago, using his skills and talents to become one of the most well-known real estate brokers in the world. He's a best-selling author, podcast host, public speaker, two-time Emmy nominated TV star for the wildly successful series Million Dollar Listing New York, huge fans, and a super successful entrepreneur and innovator. So I like to do a little research, Ryan. So I understand you were born in Texas but raised in Massachusetts. You have two brothers and you have an act actor and theater background. Yes. So after college, you moved to New York City and you used that background to start out in a soap opera, a soap opera as well as hand modeling. And then you got into real estate right when Lehman Brothers crashed and everything was happening in 2008, the Great Recession. Take us back to that time in your life when all of this was going down. And when you first start in real estate, like how hard was that to get started in New York?

I mean, you you just don't do it. If you're not from New York, if you're not born wealthy, if you if you're not if you didn't go to these schools, like you can, you can get into it, but it's but it's really, really hard. Really hard. The barrier of entry in in this city is is a hundred stories high. Um uh but ignorance is bliss. Like I if I knew then what I know now, I I mean, I I I don't think I ever would have done it. Same thing with starting this company, right? So you know, 14, 16 years later almost. Like if I if I knew in 2020 what I know now about running your own business, you know, at scale, would I have done it? Um maybe not. But but now here I am, and you know, good, good thing for it. You know, I'm happier that we're here, but man, oh man, like things are just so hard. Like it's just wild, just completely wild. Okay, listen, being a real estate agent in New York City, like you, um uh I you know, and be not being from here, and my nice clothes were cowboy boots and khaki pants. And you know, I was a theater kid who gave myself two years of saved up construction job money to to live in the city. And then you realize how expensive things are, and and then I kind of set a budget for myself. It's like I I just need I need to make $2,000 a month. You know, the only way I can stay in New York is if I make $2,000 a month. My rent is $1,100. I lived in Koreatown at 38 West 31st Street, apartment 1,100. This the apartment was 200 square feet, like, you know, and then I would have 900 bucks a month to just, I don't know, buy food. That's a lot of ramen.

That's a lot of ramen.

Yeah, so so that was it. And then I was on top of a train station, and real estate was more like for me, I associated real estate agents with bartenders and waiters. Except as a real estate agent, um, you had more freedom than a bartender or a waiter. Yeah. Because for either of those roles, you get, you know, you get a base plus tips, you make your money in tips, but you you you have your time, like you got to be there. You know, your shift on there tonight, four to twelve, you know, like you're there and you get your whole day, but but then you want to go do something, you can't do it. As a real estate agent, like you, you don't have to do anything if you don't want to, or you can do all the things. Yeah, it really depends on on where you want to get to. And I just became, I just became addicted to it. And you know, hindsight is is is that's where success lies, right? Success lies in hindsight. You you don't actually know you're having the best year while you're having it, you know. Um, you don't actually know that today is the best day of your life while you're living it. Only in hindsight, you're like, man, that was the that that day was awesome. Right. Um so uh, you know, I just I just kept my head down and just tried to make my $2,000 a month. And um, and year one, I just I failed spectacularly. Like I didn't even, it was so I I made the majority of my money from hand modeling and from like soap opera stuff and being an extra, you know, on random like old Channing Tatum movies. Like I just it was random, like that, that made up my income so I could survive. Other than that, I made like nine grand as a real estate agent in my first year.

So you went there, you didn't go there for real estate. That's what you kind of fell into.

Yeah, I went to New York City about because I failed my LSAT, so I couldn't go to law school or go to like a real law school. And so I went to my parents and said, listen, I I had a summer job in construction all through high school and all through all through college, saved up money. My grandfather died, left me 20 grand. Um, and I said, I I think I can survive. And I gotta I gotta I'd rather regret the things I did than the things I never tried. If I move home to Colorado, work on the ranch, I'm gonna meet a cowgirl, we're gonna have 2.3 kids, and then I'm going to die, and life is over. Right. So um uh if you can make it in New York, eventually, like if I if I zoom out to like Pluto and look at Earth, you die pretty quick, right? Time becomes relative. So um in New York City, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. So I um uh uh uh once I ran out of all my money in the summer of 2008, a friend of mine through theater said just get your real estate license. It's the same thing. It's yes and, which is an acting improv game. Um uh you meet strangers and put on your character, wear wear a suit and tie. You are in character as Ryan the real estate agent, you're not Ryan the actor or Ryan the poor kid anymore. I said, Okay, I can do that. I play other people all the time. And so I just became Ryan the real estate agent, which is why when million dollar listing happened, you know, and I went to that open casting call with 3,000 real estate agents.

3,000? 3,000 showed up.

Oh my god.

Out of 50,000.

Did you pick out Frederick right away?

Were you like, oh, this dude's a shoe in?

No, I you you had 30 seconds. I didn't know anybody, man. I was in the business for a year. I I you know, they they just they asked me, you know, why are you here? It's like because I'm the greatest fucking real estate broker in the history of the known universe. And they were from LA, and so they bought it.

Yeah, we want this guy.

Like, done. And then when they cast me, like, shit.

Now you gotta build shit. Now you gotta deliver. Yeah, I I've built myself up, got myself in. Now I have to, you know, create a spectacle.

Yeah, look, and I know a lot of people that way. Like, you know, it it's it's not faking it till you make it. It is, I'm gonna come in here, I'm gonna give you future me, right? Not me today, because me today takes the subway and eats half a bagel. Um, uh, me in two years has a car and a driver. Um, I'm making a million dollars that year, and I just sold a penthouse for over 10 million bucks. So I'm just gonna give you that guy because by the time you actually make this TV show and it actually puts out, I'm telling you right now, I'm gonna be there or be greater than that. So I'm gonna be that person right now for you because I don't want you to meet me of today, because that's not the me that you need on that TV show or the me you're gonna put out there. So why would I ever show you the me of of today? Like we so Million Down listing ended in in 2021 when I started when I started Sur Hamp, because it couldn't, it's not the same format, right? Like me, uh it's like watching Law and Order, and all of a sudden one of those detectives goes and starts his own detective agency, you'd be like, that's a different show. Um so uh uh the format had, you know, so the format you know died with me. And so that was stressful. But then I went and pitched a bunch of other networks on a new idea. Um, uh and I did the same thing. I was like, I am going to give them who I'm gonna be in two years as the CEO of this business. Um, and I have no idea how to make that work. I'm gonna figure it out. And that was my reel, and uh and it works, right? Same thing on deals. Like people are like, oh, I don't know how to get into luxury. I'm like, go be luxury. Where are those people? Yeah, go talk to them, go be with them. Where are they? Where are they? Where do they park their boat? Where do they mountain bike? Where do they talk to their their where do they walk their dogs? Go get a dog and walk it where they walk their dogs. Don't walk it where you're comfortable, right? Go be uncomfortable until you're not. Because in a really, really short period of time, those are going to be your people. And then you're gonna say, ah, these are only sort of rich people. I want to level up. And then you're gonna level up and level up from there.

That's phenomenal, man. So so speaking of million-dollar lists in New York, so that started around like 2012, I believe. Um, that was my third year in real estate. So I gotta be honest, man, you're an icon. You were a big inspiration for me personally. I was in corporate America myself for about a little over eight years, got into real estate 2010 when it was awful. And watching you on TV, man, and and doing your thing in New York was was phenomenal. So, my guess is the show definitely helped you as an agent. I know you made your own business, but talk a little bit about the power of influence and how that helped you not only as an agent, but now that you have a successful brokerage brand named after yourself.

I the brand's only named after me because I named it after me. I couldn't think of anything better. You know, like my name is so weird. There's like 12 of them in the world. So, you know, I was like, what's gonna generate business? If I call this flowerboxrealty.com, is that gonna help? Probably not. Um, you know, the idea of influence started uh on TV because million dollar listing came out in 2012, like you just mentioned. But that first season that came out in 2012, we shot in 2010. So by the time that thing comes out, because this stuff takes forever, right? TV just takes a long time. Um by the time it comes out, all that stuff is sold or off-market, or I've lost the listings, or they're elsewhere, or I'm, you know, I was in my 20s. Like there's a big difference between you at 24 and you at 26.

Yeah.

Your early 20s and late 20s are different. So that was me. Um so you know, that that was that that you know, so I uh uh so people started calling about it, and it was like, huh, but this just takes forever. And so pretty early on, I was like, how can I how can I take the influence that a show like this is is giving me, but um uh have immediate access to the positives, right? Have immediate access to that exposure. And so early on, it was, you know, to Instagram came out in 2013. So Instagram 2013, initially it was Facebook, right? Facebook, Facebook, Facebook, and then Twitter. You know, I was big on Twitter, like they put in photos, thoughts, comments, like all early days. Ashton Kutcher did me more days of Twitter, you know, all that stuff back in the day, um, uh 10 years ago. And, you know, and and engaging with people and trying to build brand attention and brand awareness in a way that people in my space and the real estate space just hadn't done before. And where I was lucky was that, um, was that I was young. I was I was in my 20s, like mid-20s. And, you know, my competition, even if they were trying to adapt to the social media space, um, they were you know, like Frederick's 10 years older than I am. Wow, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do that. You know, like all yeah, all my comp all my competition is so much older, like way older than me. And so it's like, all right, so you know, you're also you're a different person when you're 35 versus 25. Totally. Um, and so I was able to move really, really quick, and I didn't have anything really holding me back. So, what's the worst that can happen? I tweet the wrong thing. Whoop-de-doo.

Did you get a lot of blowback from your uh from your bosses when you were early on that first year or two about don't do this, don't do that.

You're not a boss. No, I didn't, I didn't act. Dude, I was at a tiny little firm above a burger restaurant in Midtown. There was no like any exposure that came to them was like the greatest thing of all time. Like so they didn't, they didn't, and and no one knew that million dollar listing was gonna do what it did. Like the LA show had been out for a while and it was fine, but um uh everyone told me not to do it. They're like, what? You're gonna go do Survivor? You're gonna be a Kardashian for real estate? No one will ever work with you ever again. Yeah, and I was again, I was 2010, so I was 24 years old. I was like, I uh I mean, but I don't really even have a career here.

Yeah, like what do you have to lose? Like when you're just gonna do it.

Yeah, what do you have to lose? Which is which is really, honestly, something I work on teaching every agent and salesperson I come in touch with now, um, especially you know, newer agents who are all no one has a fear of failure anymore. No one cares because everyone wants 10 jobs anyway. Um everyone now just has a fear of being embarrassed because they've grown up on screen or in a screen. So they're they're more afraid of embarrassing themselves than they are of failing. No one gives a shit about failing anymore. Um, it's just about embarrassment. Uh and so working that through, especially with younger people, um, and then teaching everyone that everyone is page one, right? Every day is page one, every single day. Like what, you know, I wouldn't be here if I hadn't gone for broke at that time because I literally was broke. So, like, what opportunities and things am I passing by on right now? Because now I'm sitting at the top of a bear hill? Like that shit. Am I am I am I holding future Ryan 10 years from today back? And that was a big decision maker for me when I was thinking about starting my own company. Like we it was fine, like 20, 2019. You know, I did just over, I don't know, I guess it was like 1.2 billion, right? Our gross commissioning was like $22 million in 2019. Life was fine, was more than fine. I had a team of 65. I was in three different states. Millionaire listing was roaring. I had just finished my first spin-off of Sale Like Sarah Hannah, just written my first book, had the podcast, I was getting $100,000 to do a speaking gig around the world. Like I was, everything was great. I just bought my first townhouse for $8 million. I was putting $8 million into it like a fucking lunatic. I owned a penthouse. And so everything was fine. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna blow up my life. And COVID hits.

Maybe hold off blowing it up.

Yeah, my parents, my parents even were like, Ryan, I need you to look at all the companies that are much bigger and smarter, and these CEOs uh who know what they're doing compared to you. All they're doing is slowing down, stopping, pulling back, furloughing people. Life is short. Just hang on. It's fine. Hang tight. You don't have to make this decision now. And I was like, Yeah, so you're saying I have to do it right now, right? That's basically what you just said. Your fear is mine. Like I gotta, if you feel that way, everyone else feels that way. And then maybe I could start this company with zero competition. Like, I I won't have to have any fanfare. And that was what I was doing. I was looking at office space, like small tiny offices for the same price per month that I have this entire building that I'm in in right now in the center of Soho. Entire building. Um, I was looking at like payroll for different people, all local. You gotta live in New York, I gotta pay those payroll taxes plus those benefits and all that. And I was budgeting and it was like, okay, this business is gonna start pretty small. And thank you, COVID. Like, have COVID not happened, I would, I would not be here today. Like, we wouldn't have what we have today. We wouldn't have scaled as fast as we did. Um, uh uh, and people wouldn't also wouldn't have understood. Like, well, you don't have offices? What are you crazy? Like, no, well, we have a different model. And like, yeah, for losers, except for now, everyone's like, oh, that's smart. That's interesting. That's whole.

Have you always like, all right, everybody's going that way in that direction? I'm gonna go this way. Has that always been like in your DNA?

I mean, I just sort of want to do what I like to do, and I don't want anyone else to tell me otherwise. Like, I I I don't know any other way to do it. Yeah, I think like sales, right? Sales is a transfer of enthusiasm and confidence. Um, and I I just don't believe I listen, all my friends in college all went on to become investment bankers or attorneys, or they went to med school. And then there was me.

I'm like, I'm gonna go to theater in New York City. Go have someone take pictures of my hands and make some money.

Yeah, I'm gonna hold. Have you ever Googled Ryan Sirhan hand model? No, I should have. Do it right now. You got computers in front of you. It's a weird trip, right? If you Google Ryan.com, Ryan Sirhan Hand model, it's uh all my all my award-winning hand photos, man. ATT around the world. They were painting my hands as like the Great Wall of China and pandas and the you know, everything. And I was, you know, they won awards for my hands, my hands were on the sides of buses.

Oh gosh, look at that. You got what did you say? Oh, that's incredible. All my research. I can't believe I didn't I didn't go through these images. That's great. How did you miss out on the most important part of the interview? Dear Lord, I mentioned it and I don't know anything about it.

Those those those dude, the hand modeling, you know, they came that a hand model agent came to me in New York. It's like, hey, listen, um, would you let someone take photos of your hands for $150 an hour? And I was like, I'll do way more for $150 an hour. Whatever you want. Whatever you want, just tell me whatever. Like, whatever you can do. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, those those those those shoots would book me for 10 hours in a day, and you get $1,500 in a day. And I didn't pay taxes for like a year. And also, taxes didn't even mean anything to me yet because I didn't have any money. So, you know, I was like, sure. What's where where's the harm in that? The one thing that I did that, you know, still to this day comes back to haunt me is um I did a stock photography shoot for a full day where they give you like 500 bucks and you take a bunch of random photos in different outfits. I never saw those photos ever get used in any advertising. And then like four years into million dollar listing, all of a sudden they're everywhere. Everywhere. All of those photos picked up. It was me like selling software on some like computer in Kansas. It was like drinking almond milk. It was me with my girlfriend in like erectile dysfunction commercials because I took a photo of me jumping up and getting hyped on a trampoline. And so I did all this stuff for five. And then people to this day still send me photos of the that photo shoot. It said to me, dude, is this your little brother? Is it do you know who this is? That's me.

Those hands belong to me.

That is great. Um, thanks for sharing all that. So, all right. So, speaking of influence, so you have a podcast. It's fantastic, by the way. Um, The Business of Influence. So, in one of the episodes recently, you had said something to one of your guests. Um, I forget exactly what guest who it was, but you were talking about something called creator burnout. And you were talking about all the content that needs to be created through social media, through YouTube. So, talk to us a little bit about that, because in the conversation, you were very much relating to her as she was referring to her problem. But I mean, let's be honest, you got millions of followers. You got a lot of people that are interested in what you're doing all day, every day. So, what what does that mean to you, creator burnout, and how does that affect business?

I mean, I think anyone can have burnout. I think if you're not, if you're not pivoting, if you're not changing, if you're not going around different corners and doing different things, like you'll, you just, you're just not gonna want to do it anymore. It's like I don't, I don't, I don't remember the last time I, you know, for five years, man, I was putting out real estate property tours on YouTube every week. Um, I would only miss a week for like very specific circumstances. Um, and I was traveling around the world. I was doing like ranch tours in Colorado, I was all over California, I was in Mexico, I was doing these property tours and building up like, you know, a brand by association. Um, I wanted to be the real estate guy, right? I'm gonna do it on millionaire listings, so I'm gonna hit you on TV, then I'm gonna do it in the media and the press, and then I'm gonna do it across social. When you think real estate, you think right, sirhand, especially in the luxury space, and I wanted to build that brand equity and people were watching the videos. And then And then that's exhausting. And like, and then you just how many, how many times can you do that type of tour and not switch it up and change it and find the evolution, right? You've got to evolve. I mean, you can't do the same thing over and over and over. And so, you know, we then we started doing short form, and then we, you know, started doing podcasts and kind of all that, all that kind of stuff. And um uh and then my life evolved, right? Like I didn't like I had sold a lot of stuff and a lot of buildings. And what was I gonna do? Just sell more personally. And I actually started getting more enjoyment from watching my team grow and really mentoring my team and helping them learn and getting mad at them when they would f up. And like, yeah, um, uh I was like, huh, I wonder if I'm a better leader than I am a broker. Like I I I think I'm a great salesperson. Um, I think I I think I'm a great broker, but I wonder if my in my heart of hearts, I actually enjoy leading more than anything. Let me let me go and like pour all my chips on on that table.

Yeah.

And that's that's really where I am today. Like I do, I do a handful of large deals a year. You know, I'm attached to big things. We generate a significant amount of lead flow. We've worked really, really hard on building brand equity. Um, we're building really cool things in the tech space. We we've been growing like a weed. I hired, I think it was we just looked at the numbers because today's the last day of January. I hired um 82 agents in January. Wow. You know, so in January alone? Yeah, in the month of January. Wow. So we're we're growing, uh we're growing quickly. You know, we just hired Josh Team as our president, who was the president of Keller Williams. So I did see that. I get excited about I get excited about 82, and then I talked to Josh, and he's like, that's super cute. You know, at Keller when I was there, he would onboard 5,000 agents a month. A month.

Yeah, yeah.

So nuts, nuts. And I'm like, okay, well, whatever, man. It's all relative to me. Let me get there. Maybe in 10 years, I'll look back at these days and think, like, oh man, see, that was cute.

But Keller Williams has been around for like 40 years, man. Like, give me a little bit of breathing room.

Oh no, he started Calgary's in the 60s.

Yeah, Calegrams have been around for a while. Oh, I didn't know it was 60s, I thought it was maybe 80s. Wow, that's crazy.

Long, long, long time.

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So Pennsylvania is one of your new states. Uh how much traction are you getting in Pennsylvania and what's it look like down here?

So far, so good. You know, we're recruiting kind of across marketplaces. I met a bunch of our new PA agents last uh last week, I think it was. Yeah. Um, you know, our models are pretty different. Like we, you know, we allow agents to we we basically flex with their business, right? Come in, we have amazing resources, use them to grow, build your brands, right? Really kind of build your own entrepreneurial platform. Um, so we have great success with onboarding teams that are looking to really, really grow, um, and independent brokerages that are looking to really, really grow. You know, we've we've I like I can't even tell you right now how many independent brokerages have have not sold to Compass, not sold to someone in their market, and then they come to me and they're like, we just we're just gonna fold into you if that's okay. Um, because I can't get the agents I want to get because we're we're small and independent. I'm not getting the listings new developments that I want to get because we're small and independent. Um, with you, I can still stay and feel small and independent because my operations aren't gonna change. I'll keep the same office because I have a good deal here and I'll paint it blue. Um uh uh, but then I get kind of the best of both worlds. And and it works every every time, like without fail. So far, it's worked every time. And I cannot tell you how cool it is to talk to those, you know, to those CEOs who are now real market leaders for us. Um obviously there's always going to be haters in every market that we go into.

And let's talk about let's talk about them, Ryan.

Sure.

Plenty of haters, right? And then and the bigger you get, the more hate, you know, the more hate that's out there, right?

But listen, I think it's a part of the business, you know. Like you, you know, everyone is going to try to uh uh stifle competition by using the legal system. And I just don't even think about it, to be honest. Like I just know that if we operate well, ethical, we do the right thing, don't do anything stupid, double check everything, stay above board, stay real black and white. And if people still sue us, just end up, send them an ORCID, feel bad for them.

Yeah.

Right. Because the only reason they're doing it is to, again, like I said, stifle competition. And in the words, or in the words of the prophet, yeah, in the words of the prophet, Taylor Swift, the trash takes itself out every time.

It's so funny you're talking about that. I remember so, so you know, I started an independent brokerage here in Philadelphia called Copper Hill Real Estate. And when I first got in the business, you know, super airtight, auditing everything, full staff, like we're running it real lean. And I remember an attorney once said to me and said, You haven't truly made it in business until someone tries to sue you. And that always stuck with me because, yeah, I agree. It's like people are scared, you know, people are scared of you coming into town. I mean, Philly's different than New York. So New York, big city, international, people from everywhere, super transient. Philly, for being a decent sized city, you know, six, seventh largest city in the country, is very local. So it's kind of different. I'm not sure how much time you spent like in Philadelphia, getting to know just kind of like the neighborhoods and stuff like that. But it's like it's very generational. Again, it's become more transient. And people hate change here, man. So it's like someone comes in and they're gonna, they're gonna protect, they're gonna protect their turf.

Even going into the going into the Hamptons, going into Long Island, going into Georgia, which we're now going into now, you know, going to Boston soon. You know, it's um uh, you know, the only two markets that I didn't get a lot of pushback in were New York, because we were already there, and and Miami, because Miami is a is a global city, you know, so they like no one cares. Um just says kind of good luck, right? It's hard. It's hard. Uh everywhere else, you know, the territory is small. So the the the pool is small. Um, and I'm also learning. Like I'm not I'm not investor backed, like I'm not a public company. Um, I have no intention of of being small. Um uh and I gotta learn. So we're we're learning from different people, different types of managers, different types of agents, different markets. What works in PA is not what works in South Carolina, that is for sure. Yeah, even though everyone's the same, they're not, right? What works in South Carolina is not what works in Galray Beach. Like they're just different, different models, different economics, right? Different people. So as much as I think some firms try to e-commerce this business all day long, no matter what, until a house figures out how to sell itself to another house, and maybe Sam Altman and Chat GPT will figure that one out. I don't know. Um, humans are still going to be needed to facilitate human transactions. And I'm in the business of building a very, very large company that democratizes sales from brokerage to education to media. And um I I actually the stat that really turned me on to all this was in uh, so where what year is it? 2024. So yeah, so in 2019, when I made that decision, when I was like, you know what, next year, beginning of a new decade, I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it off and start my own business. The census had put out data that said that 23% of US taxpayers five years ago um were filing a 1099. Wow. So they were independent contractors in some way. Now, most of them probably had W-2s and like had a 1099 from selling t-shirts on Etsy or something.

Yeah, side hustle.

Yeah. Today it's 36%. Wow. Um by 2027, over 50% of US taxpayers are going to be submitting a 1099 to the government, whether they have a W-2 or additional, you know, uh income or K1s or whatever. So that means that over 50% of the US economy is going to somehow, some way, some shape or form, be making an income from gigwork by selling something. Um uh that is a that is that's an industrial revolution. That's a that's a generational shift. And um uh I think that's where we should be focused on, right? Is is really being focused on that future and and how we can use the tools at hand today to empower us and not replace us. Like if you read that book, Zero to One, by Peter Thiel, the best line he has in that book, on top of all the other great business anecdotes and how to build business and how to go from zero to one and all that is he says the greatest businesses of the next generation are gonna be those that don't try to use technology to replace people, but to empower them. Yeah. Um, and you know, that's what like we put out our first product uh Tuesday of last week, a week, a week ago today, um, at Inmin in New York City called Simple. And that's I said that's what it does. So all of our agents, you never have to do work again, other than do the things that you are uniquely qualified to do, which is meet people, network, be out there, show, do all that stuff. But you'll never use a CRM ever again here. Like you'll never create another postcard or do another mailer or or do any do any of that ever again. Everything will now just get done for you. And that's that's how I really view like not just brokerage 3.0, but like world 3.0.

Um now we can do it. That's what it is. Techno leveraging technology to free up uh workers, employees, and all that to do the things that's going to make them more money. I mean, enhance customer service. Yeah, where should they be spending their time? It shouldn't be spending time printing out postcards or mailing that stuff out. It should be networking, meeting the right people, being in front of the right people, and doing those types of things to build the network.

Yeah. And you mentioned brokerage 3.0. That was one of my points here, too. So you know as well as me, you've been in this business for a while, longer than I have, and you've seen how much it has changed since you and I have been in this business. You know, th 14 years for me, 16 years for you. Like, even still today, people are like, oh yeah, I send out postcards and you know, I'm I'm doing this. And I look at it, it's like it's no like and trust. You got to know, got to get to know someone, then you get to like them, then you get to trust them. And everyone is on social media. Everyone is on the internet. I mean, a lot of this stuff is free, but a lot of people in our business don't do what you do. So talk about brokerage 3.0 a little bit more and like what that philosophy means to to Sir Hant as you grow.

So, you know, a big reason why people come to work with us or they join, sell like Sir Hant, which is our education side of the business, um, and they take our pro-brand strategy courses. So we have brand strategists here that that work with salespeople. And it's not just, I thought I thought we were setting that up just for real estate agents. Now we have like guys that run surgery centers in Mongolia. Like it is the the wildest product market fit I've ever seen in my personal life ever.

Um wait, what was what did you just say?

People have to do that. We do, we yeah, we do we teach people how to how to build and we teach people and businesses how to build brand. That's like I have a book that comes out next week called Branded, like Sur Hands. Yeah, this book. We were getting to that for a yeah. So that comes out next week.

JBB.

So that is uh so that comes out on February 6th. And you know, it's it's all it's a branding manual for how to build personal brand and product brand uh in 2025 and beyond, because I could not find I could not find a book that that talked to me about TikTok strategy and uh uh PR strategy in today's day and age and all of that stuff that's in there. Um uh and so we help people do that. And you know, we help people, not just real estate, we help people, you know, that business is is really almost like B2B working with interior designers. Uh I mentioned people, you know, who have surgery centers. It's just a random one. We work with people that sell advertising for Formula E race cars in South Korea. We have a lot, you know, people in Australia, people in Tanzania, like it's just it's wild. And we wouldn't be here had it not been for social and for the power of the arrow button. The biggest rainmaker for all of us really is the ability to share with the push of one button on your phone in your hand. That's what I could do on Million Dollar Listing. Because if you watched an episode of Million Dollar Listing, you were watching entertainment. Um, but on your phone, it's infotainment, right? It's not just entertainment, you're getting info in an entertaining way. And you're able to take that information and say, hey, this is a cool house, mom, with one arrow. Here you go. And then we sold 253 West 18th Street for $13 million because a 13-year-old girl saw the video. Like a lot of us have stories like that. Yeah. Um, uh uh, so you know, we we use that and we're able to empower all of our agents, all of our teams, all the indie brokerages that we absorb, empower, you know, their own brands to build and sell more. Like you can ask any agent or team that's come over and uh they still have to do work. Like they're just waking up and things get done for them. But you know, as long as they put in the work, the work will take care of them.

Yeah, it's interesting you say that about how people are finding properties because I think Andy, on your co-host on your podcast, said that he got like an $18 million listing through TikTok. Yeah. Was that legit? He doesn't know what he said about TikTok.

He's he's like 22 years old. He has no, he has no, it was like me when I first got started. Like I didn't know, I didn't know that everyone in New York City for 20 years built their real estate business using the New York Times classified ads. That's where you would post properties, that's where you do everything. That was just that was it. If you weren't in New York Times, it was you, you, you could not survive. But by the time I got started, it was all Craigslist. Yeah. And if you weren't on Craigslist, you could not survive. Today, I don't know, so it's everything changes, right? You got to be able to pivot and roll, roll with the progression of the times. Um uh uh but yeah, Andy, you know, I met Andy on TikTok. All of his business comes from TikTok. Like, dude, Talia, who works for me, you know, I met her when she was doing a 200, $268,000 co-op sale. I was like, you you could be great at this. Um uh and worked with her. She's been with me ever since. She's closed a $31.5 million deal. Awesome. Um uh yeah, and the business that's coming to her from that deal that we pushed out and really supported her on, um, it's been awesome. And people see that and they're like, wow, we really love following your journey. It's super cool. My wife sent me one of your videos before anyway. Um, I don't know, do you I think her place is probably worth $14. Do you do sales of of that size that are that small? And that's how it works. Wow. That's fantastic.

Yeah, I actually saw I'm not in real estate, but I saw her story and I thought it was just an awesome story.

Is she a Pennsylvania girl?

Yeah, I think she she was like um by like Lancaster. She's from Lancaster. Nice. Yeah. But I saw that story and it came. You're not in real estate.

What is this podcast? Who are you? Yeah, yeah.

No, it's uh bricks and risk, bricks for you and I, real estate, but risk because Sean's got his own insurance business. So we wanted to bring real estate and insurance together. We've known each other since we were like 10 years old.

Yeah, but nice. That's awesome. I saw I saw that story, and and it it was cool to me because it was cool because of what she was capable of doing. Like you have this person that wasn't exposed to these humongous deals, and but so it was cool to her to kind of see, like, all right, I started doing this real estate here, and I was able to grow and mature into this position, but also cool because it was like someone, obviously, you, and I don't know what the mechanics were behind it, but you or someone else said, Oh, you know, I think that you'd be a good fit, and I think that you have a lot of promise in front of you, and I think that you'd be capable of doing this. So it's like her story and and your story, the Serhan story, together was just like unbelievable to me just to see how it was going from here to here. I it really intrigued me.

Yeah, I I mean, where where do I even start? I mean, what would be what would be interesting to you um uh uh in the in the time we in the time we have? Like I listen, I'm a big believer in what got me here won't get me there.

Yeah.

I tell all of our agents that everyone who freaks out, all the sellers that we talk to, all of our clients, what gets you here might not necessarily get you there. Yeah, that's and that's that's a big push that we have too with um uh with our employees. Like I I have a big, you know, we have a big executive team now. We have uh I've got 116 employees on payroll. None of them have names, they all are just a number to me. Okay, and um, I'm kidding, they have names sort of we can we can edit this out. Oh, keep it. It's important. We need that. You have to, you have to, you have to, there's got to be a company dollar allotted to your salary, otherwise, you are not a good investment firm. And so um we uh uh I don't even know where I was going with that. Oh, right. So all the employees they come from other companies, right? And those companies typically have do things one way, and you know, you you get stuck on how those things are done. It's like all of us, like whether the three of us want to be our dads, we're gonna be our versions of how we saw our dads treat our moms and treat other people because it's just what we know, it's what we saw. Yeah, like my dad is cold, he's brutal, he was he was tough, right? I he treated his kids and everyone like an employee.

That's how you became the hand model.

Yeah, and I hated it growing up, and so I revolted probably by by doing hand jobs. And now I like I I just you know, I look at everything and I say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm acting the same way. How did this happen? Yeah, yeah. I told myself, but it's in the DNA.

Isn't that funny as it happens when you get older, especially when you get married and and start a family, which I know you have? It's like you're like product of your environment. I feel like I'm looking in the mirror to like my dad, like 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

Yeah.

100% you're a product of your environment. Like I'm a product. I say all the time, man. I always I remember um when I got into real estate in 2008, you know, I was doing it for a little bit, and then Thanksgiving 2009, right? I had been doing it for a year, and it was really hard. I was running around, I'd like worn holes through my Allen Edmonds shoes. I I was just tired and exhausted. And I go home for Thanksgiving, and we're all sitting at the table, and my dad or someone says, like, so what's it like being a real estate agent? And I don't really remember how what happened, but like a couple minutes later, I guess I hadn't stopped talking yet. And my whole family is just like their forks are down and they're just looking at me. And my little brother goes, Bro, you talk so fast now. And it's like, what do you mean I talk fast? I don't talk fast. You talk fucking slow table right now. You want to go, bro? Is that is that are you gonna come now? You want to do a deal? And he's like, We don't know who you are. You have changed. I'm like, I'm a product of my okay, like they knew me as like a little actor, you know, theater, shy little kid. Like I went to New York to play, play pretend, you know, and I came home from Thanksgiving, just hardened, beaten bloody, yeah, talking way too loud. Nice.

Love it. That's awesome, man. Um, so we're we're quote, guys. We like a good quote. And um, is there a go-to quote that you like in business or in life?

I think I've I think I've said a couple of them on on this one.

You know, I um uh well if you want, I'll help you out with the one you shared with us because you know, we talked a while ago, but you had you had one that you said, take care of the work and the work will take care of you, which I thought was awesome.

Yeah, there was a famous jazz musician who on his deathbed, after he had gone through like multiple careers, up and down, up and down, fortune to bankruptcy, multiple wives, drug addiction, nearly died, all that. Um, but at the end, he was a great success and an amazing story. And he was asked at the end of his life, how'd you make it through? Like, how do you what's what's the key? What's the what's this what's the key to to life this way? And he just said, if you take care of the music, the music will take care of you. Um and for me, it's like, oh, okay, I get that. If he just plays and plays his heart out and just get tries to get better at the music every day, play that saxophone better than anybody else. Just take care of that music, that music, that music. People are gonna notice, and that music's gonna take care of you. You know, um, and so for me, it's just take care of the work, do the work day in and day out. Don't focus on the money, don't focus on anything else. Just do the work, be so great at doing the work that it'll just take care of you. And I I tell this to our agents all the time, who I think uh unfairly probably have watched me on TV and across social. And so they see me and they say, ah, the way to be successful, I'm gonna do what Ronnie does. I'm gonna put on a costume, I'm gonna get naked over here, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna be loud, I'm gonna be an influencer, I'm gonna do all this without paying attention to the 10 years that went into all this stuff. And I have to remind them all the time stop trying to be different. Instead, try to be great. Because if you do that, you're gonna be so great that you will be different. That's the secret, right? That's the secret. That's a really good perspective. Mahomes doesn't try to be different with the way he throws and the way he runs and you know his funkiness and all that. He tries to be the greatest ever. And and and then and then he's now one of the greatest ever. And it's like you never bet up against that damn guy. Here he is. Brady pursuable, yeah. Like remember what I grew up in Boston, right? Yeah, I grew up in Boston and grew up a massive Brady fan, and then um, and then I became a rip-roaring Buccaneers fan, and you know, just be be so great, you are different.

Yeah, well, it's finding your own voice and finding your own lane and and and excelling in what you do best and kind of doing it your own way.

Yeah. And Ryan, exactly. I just want to say, man, it has been a total honor to sit down and chat with you, learn more about your backstory, share it with our audience. Um, I know anyone can find you anywhere online, you're everywhere. But um We can find his his days when he was hand mild.

We can find that's that's true. And uh we want to do it.

Everyone should go to brandflike surhand.com. This is the last book I'm ever gonna write for the rest of my life. Everyone, because it takes so much work. And my my focus now is on building the business and making this the greatest company in the history of the known universe. So, like to write a 317-page book, letter by letter by letter by letter by letter, um, I just don't have the bandwidth anymore. And so I put my whole life into these three books, into my selling trilogy from sell like surgeon to big money energy to finally brand it like surhand. So if you're in sales and you have any questions whatsoever, the first book teaches you how to sell, the second book gives you the confidence on how to use those tools. And the third book, you might be the greatest salesperson, but if no one knows what you're selling, it doesn't mean anything. Um, and so it it it works really, really well together. And uh, you should give it all to yourselves as gifts.

We are going to we're gonna buy some copies and give it out to uh listeners.

We are. They're cheap. They're they're only the cost of a book. It's totally fine.

Sweet. Well, that's that's that's awesome. Well, hey, man, we really appreciate your time today and want to say thank you, everyone, for tuning in to another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you soon. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.