Build Your Brand With Matt Lionetti's Real Estate Playbook | Episode 115

You know, I'd always have these different goals for myself. One of the big ones was being a keynote speaker. And one of the big ones was speaking at Inmin. I remember one year, it was January 2023, and someone was like, Matt, you you gonna go to Inmin this year? I was like, Yeah, of course I'm going. I'm speaking. And they're like, You're speaking? I'm like, Yeah, yeah. You know, like a liar. Inmin had no clue who I was. Yeah, yeah. And then I was like, okay, well, you know, I'm not a liar. So now I have to speak at Inmin, and Inmin's in April. I didn't even think because I'm kind of a moron. I didn't even think to reach out to them. I was just like, I'm gonna get noticed by them. And then lo and behold, like a month before, they're like, so they commented, Matt, we gotta get you on the Inmin stage. And then they DM me. And then it's like those kind of things that like I just had such a just such a strong belief that, like, okay, if I can put my mind to it, I like I literally I can figure this out.

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Right here, guys, reach out to John Stacks and his team at Property Management Redefine. Take good care of you. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Bricks and Risk. I'm Tim Garrety. And I'm coming out, Sean Mooney. Today's Sean, we have an international guest. Guest I think our first real estate superstar. We have Matt Leonetti hailing from Toronto, Canada. How are you doing today, Matt? I'm doing I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for coming on. So a little background on Matt. So he's a real estate agent with Real Broker. He's been doing that for just shy of a decade. He's a coach with Sell It, which is Ryan Starhan's coaching program, and he's also a keynote speaker. So Matt is a super talented content creator who built his personal brand on funny, clever, and sometimes polarizing content that, whether you like it or not, demands your attention. At the core of his authenticity is saying what's on his mind, a trait not commonly found within the residential real estate industry. Earning millions of organic views on social media, his unconventional approach has landed him on some of the biggest stages in business, such as Ryan Surhant's, Gary Vaynerchuk's, and Tom Perry's. Matt has forged his own path and has become a fan favorite among agents and clients alike. So, as mentioned in one of your recent videos, you were saying that your peers and teachers and people around you were saying that you were the kid that no one thought would succeed. So, what has that taught you as you've built your real estate career over the last decade?

Taught me a lot. I mean, the thing is about all that, and thank you for the nice introduction, even though I fucking sent it. I I I I sent everything.

Get a tap on your back. Yeah.

But uh yeah, I had someone write that for me. I can't write that shit. Yeah, I mean, like the thing is, is what I go on about a lot is um sometimes you like I've found your biggest role models are the people you don't want to be anything alike. And anything like so um, as all these teachers were always telling me, like, hey, like you're not gonna do it, like they would literally to my face be like, there's nothing here, like you got nothing. I met my wife in high school. Can you push a big yeah, seriously? And uh they were like, you know, to my wife who was like an honor roll student, they were like, Oh, like, are you still dating Matt? And my wife was like, Yeah. And they're like, You could do so much better than him. And I was like, the fuck? Yeah, it's horrible. You're like, no, she can't. I'm the best, I got enthusiasm. I'm I'm in I'm incredible. So I mean, really, like, you know, now I look back and I just think more uh I had such a chip on my shoulder, and I still kind of do. And I I I always just like like being that underdog and like proving people wrong. And what it's taught me most is like when someone says I can't do something now, I get this like fire in me to the point where like it until it's done, I won't stop. It's just it's created like a relentless kind of energy in me, I think. Did that start when you got kicked out of high school? Probably. Um, and for it didn't it didn't always it wasn't always like that. At first it was kind of like for a long time, I was just thinking, because the exact quote, and I say it in this video, was like high school, the my principal sat me down, was like, high school's not meant for people like you, and for that reason you no longer go to this high school. And for probably four or five years after, um, I was just like, everything I would do if I didn't succeed at it quickly, I'd be like, oh, maybe this I'm just not meant, you know, this isn't meant for someone like me. And it kind of like fucked with my mind a little bit for a while until one day I was just like, no, like if I, you know, I'm going down this path that like they said I would go on, and if I continue going down this path, they're gonna win. And I'm too competitive to let someone else win. So I was like, I gotta change some shit up here. I was and then I just put put it in my mind whether they were right or wrong. I was like, they don't know shit, fuck them. Right, and I'm just gonna go for it. Dude, good for you, man.

That's funny. We share that in common. Uh, there was uh my vice principal in grade school after I got asked to leave um fourth grade. Um she said to me, she sat me down and he was an earlier bloomer than you were, Matt. I hit my teeth. He was like nine. Peaked out fourth grade. Um, but she sat me down and I was in eighth grade, and she goes, you know, Sean, had I known now what I know, I would have never let you come here to our school. Yes. And I was like, Well, I get it, but you know, it wasn't that I was bad, I just couldn't just sit still, and it's just yeah, it just didn't appeal to me, like all like the structural stuff with uh, but the same thing is like, oh, is is Sean in jail? Like what I wonder what he's everybody would like talk to my mom, like, oh, what's Sean do these days, you know? Just expecting me to be some dropout or something. And I think a lot like you is I just took that with me to kind of thumb in their eye and be like, okay, you think that? All right, I'm gonna go and do this and I'm gonna go do that. Yeah, so yeah, a lot like you, I guess, in a way. Yeah, love it.

And one thing you said too is like kind of like when you were going through all that, it's not that you were like, you know, disrespectful. It wasn't about that. It was just you were like maybe taking chances, testing boundaries, like trying to see what you could get away with, you know, what's what are the consequences of that? I mean, I was I was no angel as well, you know. Um, neither of us were. And I think what's interesting about that is like, especially today, we were just chatting about this with kind of like the way things are with kids growing up. I have a seven-year-old daughter, and it's just like everyone's got these tight strings on their kids now, and they don't want them to hear this or see this or do that. And I saw a recent post on Instagram. Now, again, take it for what it's worth, but it was saying like our generation, when we were growing up, we were allowed to go like fall off the swing and break our arm. And now it's like a kid takes a couple steps on a ladder that's like four feet off the ground. You're like, get down, what are you doing? So it's just different.

Yeah, it's way different. And like when I got, you know, getting kicked out of high school when I did compared to now, too, especially with like the Gary V's of the world, and you know, you know, people really coming to the forefront and letting people know that like a college education isn't the end all be all, right? As like it once was seen as. So like getting kicked out whenever whatever it was, like eight, 19, 18 years ago or whatever it was, like um that was like for my parents, that was like death. Okay, that's fuck. Now what? You know, so I did get I got my uh I did get my diploma. It was very I don't even know how, it was really sketchy. I met some guy in McDonald's and he like gave me some work. You're like, here's your Mac, where's my paper? I met and then he gave me like these duotanks, and then I was like, he's like, Yeah, just do these. I was like, okay. And then my then girlfriend, now wife, and my mom just did them all for me. Because I was like, I'm not fucking doing this. And then and I got my diploma that way, and then I got it, got it in the mail.

Well, you're like dipping your French fries, you're like, Come on, can you girls go a little bit quicker here?

Yeah, it was so weird. That was like it was so odd. Mine was my mom, my mom swore I wasn't graduating. She's like high school, she was like, There's no way. And like literally the day of graduation, she's like, Give me that. Like it came in like the book, and she's like, give me that. Like, needed to like verify it. She's like, Oh my god.

Oh, geez. No idea how I did it. It's too funny. Um, let's segue a little bit. So um, you're big on personal brand. So let's talk about it a little bit. Let's talk about the power of personal brand, you know, because I think it's like we're in this age of real estate now. You've been doing it just shy of a decade. I'm sure you would agree that even the last 10 years, the residential real estate industry has changed a lot with brand. And, you know, maybe 10 years ago it was still a little bit more of a brokerage world. Like the brokerage's brand is really what mattered. You want to work here because this is a well-known, this is a household name, let's call it. And and that's changed. So, like, why does having a personal brand work for you and your business?

I really think it's the the glue to everything. Like, people don't, you need to find that connection level now, at least for me. So, like, people don't like you because you sell a lot of homes or you do a lot of deals. People, you know, you get you gain credibility from that, but they don't like you. And ultimately, if they don't like you, they don't want to work with you.

Yeah.

Um, I so, you know, the only thing I can really go off of is what I want to see. So I've built everything off of like what would I want to see if I was looking for an agent? And I came to the conclusion that, you know, growing up, when I was watching like a commercial, because social media where you can build your personal brand for free is a just a bunch of commercials that you're putting out for your brand and your business. So I was like, as a kid, I loved two types of commercials. I loved uh comedy, funny commercials, and I loved emotional commercials that, you know, pulled on the heartstrings a little bit. Those were the things that always engaged me. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna try and like bring that forward. The more like cinematic, emotional stuff came way later. I built my whole brand really off like funny stuff, and then I pivoted uh a couple years ago doing it more like cinematic when I got into the higher end. But I just really think like, okay, like if you go into a listing appointment, you know, with someone else, if you both have the same numbers and on paper you look the exact same, the thing that's gonna win you the appointment is connection and personality. And if you know, the more you can show that uh before you get your foot in the door, like the best compliment I get now is oh, we feel like we know you. Like, if you can make someone feel like they they know you before they know you, like that appointment's so much easier.

Yeah.

And now I don't I bear I don't even I don't even compete really anymore. People call me and they're like, yeah, let's let's do it.

Yeah, it's kind of like the transaction is already ready to go before you even step foot in their home. Because they've gotten to know you and they're like, okay, I like this guy. And now they're like, I kind of trust this guy too, because I saw this video where maybe it was maybe it was a joke they related to, or I saw this video and like I I felt something through that, you know, more the cinematic stuff that you've done. And I I think that's super powerful because at the end of the day, I used to say it. So I've been in residential real estate for like 15 years, and when I got in, and Philadelphia is kind of like an older, you know, generational city, you know, people don't leave, you know. So it's like the status quo and doing things the way we've always done it is fairly normal here. Oh, my my grandfather did this, and then then my mother did that, so so I'm gonna do it. You know, it's like kind of like this is just the way we do it. So it's interesting that like today, I kind of think everything changed with COVID because COVID allowed different companies to come into the space and do it differently. When those residential real estate brokers came into the space and did it differently, I think that changed the mindsets of just agents everywhere. Okay, like how much, like, how much does an office really matter anymore? Like, do I have to be at this office on the main dragon downtown that seats a hundred people, that has uh, you know, an office administrator like working at the front desk or someone greeting me as I walk in and said, you know, sparkling are still. Um, like, does that really matter anymore? Or is it matter to connect, like to actually feel like, you know what? I connect with Matt. I saw that, and then as soon as you show up and you're you're gonna be that person, they're gonna be like, all right, like just you know, yeah, look at what you want to look at, but like tell me where I'm gonna sign, like as soon as you look at it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't agree more. I I always say now, like brokerages want you to think that you need them when really it's the other way around. That's their last thing that they can kind of hold on to. Um, and I think a lot of the traditional models are gonna be shaken up really a ton in the next couple years. And I really think if people don't adapt and just try and rely on tradition and brand and brand identity that they once had, they're gonna quickly see that that's not gonna work anymore. And I really compare it mostly to you know blockbuster versus Netflix. If you're not gonna adapt, you're gonna turn into Blockbuster because there's a new way of doing things that's way more efficient and it's it's way more valuable to both the agent and the consumer. So if you're going to, you know, focus on, oh, you need the brand for luxury homes, all that's fucking bullshit. All the shit that they're telling you and you're paying all these high bullshit fees, it's all nonsense.

Yep.

You're the only one, like you you don't j unless they're giving you million dollar leads and you just have to close them, fine. That's one thing. Do what you gotta do. But a brand, I don't care, like I don't care what you know, it's it's all about you. Like the brand is not gonna make someone choose I don't know. If I go up against anyone with any brand, I feel like I'll beat them, no matter what. I think everyone should feel that way.

No one's coming to you being like, oh, are you the thank goodness you work for ABC Real Estate? But like, are you oh oh you I'm looking for the Sotheby's agent. Are you with Sotheby's? Like, it doesn't happen. No, no, that zero, zero times in the last hundred years have had a a transaction maybe in 1972.

Go on that way.

Whatever. I don't know forever. But they they honestly they they but they hold on to that and they kind of manipulate these agents into thinking like, oh well, you know, you need worldwide presence. You need to, you know, yeah, like a big thing that all these guys, oh well, you know, as soon as we put our listing out, we have agents in Spain. Yeah, who I don't who the fuck cares? Right. What's Spain gotta do with Toronto? Yeah, right. You know, I'm just like, you know, like so it's just like when you really take a step back and listen, every there's there's no one right brokerage or anything like that. Every brokerage is right for that.

There's many great brokerages.

That's great, but I just want agents to start uh betting on themselves a little more and giving themselves a bit more credit because without them the brokerage is nothing.

Yeah. Is it like a lack of confidence that they just ultimately rely on the brokerage? Like to me, it it You're talking about from like an Asian perspective? Yeah, like why drink the Kool-Aid with them? To me, it looking from an outsider's perspective, it it makes zero sense to me why you would go in that direction because they've got a fancy office, they've got international name recognition, they've got buyers in Spain. Like to me, it just seems so elementary that those things wouldn't matter, but it sounds like from what you guys are saying that that there is positioning that way, that people do rely on it. I'm just curious, is like what's your thoughts on on why that occurs or what the psychology might be behind it? Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's just like this shiny object. It's like all these things are gonna sound so good in my presentation. But again, you can have everything in the world if you don't connect, if you don't do the work and connect, you're done.

If you don't find a vibe matter for this place, yeah.

Like I said, if if if whatever brokerage, and there's all really great attributes to all these brokerages, if they're like they gotta show you their worth as well, just as much, you know, you're not gonna join a brokerage and then just skyrocket to the top.

Right.

You need to brokerages are to me, in my opinion, they're not as um before they used to be very consumer-based. Meaning, like, you know, in the 90s, even like I remember it in my area, there was Remax signs and century 21 signs, and that was that was it. That was like, yeah, if you're selling your home, you're going with a Remax agent or a Century 21 agent. And of course, there's still great agents with those brokerages, but like the brokerage model now is less consumer-facing and it's more client-facing. So, and what I mean by that is like the the brokerage's job now is to give the the agent the tools for them to do their job at the highest level to then give their client, because I know the client is technically the brokerage's client, but it's our client, it's the agent's client to give the client the best experience. So that's what you want. Where are you gonna go where you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have to work hard wherever you go, but where are you gonna go that they're gonna give you the tools to excel the way you want to excel? And there's, you know, like I said, there's all different types of way to get business in this industry. So whatever works best for you. But yeah, I talk about this a ton. I just want agents to understand that like they're extremely valuable, and you know, don't get don't get kind of like hung up on those those really shiny things where you're now paying $700 desk fees and all like a crazy split. Like you're worth more than that. We work hard.

Yep, agreed. Um, all right. So during your real estate career, so you're would you classify yourself today as more of a luxury agent?

Yeah, I guess like now I do like listen, I've never like that my end goal was never to be a real estate agent until I'm like 60. You know, it's just not I don't, you know, I I what I want to do with this is build the brand and then create different outlets of passive income, and that's what I've done now. So now real estate, I focus on luxury high end, uh past clients that I really like and friends family. That's it. Anything else that comes in, like I'm just I'm referring out whatever. I have other stuff, I'm just focusing on the stuff. Stuff that I want to do. Like I said, I coach and um I help like a network of agents and um I keynote and stuff. So I'm just like focusing more on the stuff that I want to do. But yes, to answer your question, I uh essentially only focus on like higher end luxury at this point.

Now, how did you how did you break into that market? So was it more like a client that brought you into it and then it just kind of spread from there? Like, were you very like intentional about like wanting to represent like higher price points? Like, how did that come to be?

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone wants to do it, but they never like for the longest time, and now this is what I tell all my coaching clients like if you want to be in a higher price point, you need to create and get in front of people who are in those higher price points. So however you want to do that, whether it's in person, going to events and I don't know, golf clubs or whatever the hell, you know, wherever rich people hang out, or like doing content that's luxury-facing. Like those are ways to do it. So it was first, it was one client. One client got me into the price point, um, and it was a $2.4 million buy. And they trusted me with it, and it was a big deal, and they're still clients of mine today, and I love them. And from that, I was able to leverage it to a point. Um, and I would leverage it, leverage it, and I was getting into a higher price point, and then I hit kind of like a roadblock where I went on this like 3.6 or 3.7 million dollar listing appointment. Um, and I was so close to getting it, and then they decided last second that I didn't have enough luxury listing experience.

Oh, wow.

So I was like, damn. And I was like, okay, back to the drawing board. And then I called my partner who I do a lot of these uh high-end listings with, Anna Oliver. She is an incredible luxury agent here in Toronto, and she we were at the same brokerage, and I was like, hey, Anna, like, can I can I do all the marketing on one of your listings and just like put me as sales agent too? And she was like, Yeah. I was like, I don't want to, I'll pay for it. I don't want anything when it sells. That's all I need. And then she's like, Yeah. And then we did that, and then we be we had a great working relationship, and then we started just like we started taking out like these really high-end listings. Like we were we're slinging like four or five, six million dollar listings together now after this. You know, she saw the value in me, I saw the value in her, and we created this partnership, and now, you know, the way we do things is we do things together, and then we both have separate businesses as well. Um, because I think like a 50-50 partnership is a dicey way to do things because you can get resentment very quickly that way, especially if like, you know, I have a client before I met Anna, and then she's coming in and taking 50% advice, you know. So we just do it like deal by deal. And then yeah, it just turned out that like, you know, as we started to do stuff, we we were really like we were not only getting these listings, but we were selling them for record prices, and then we were selling them in two days, three days in these price points because of her expertise from like a uh transactional and a client care and a negotiating point of view, and my expertise from like getting it to the right people and marketing it in a way, and yeah, that's how it all kind of started, and then it's just kind of like taking off from there.

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I heard you mention one time you were talking about your Freddie uh Mercury moment. Yeah. So for some people that are out there that aren't familiar with you and your backstory, can you talk a little bit about that and then kind of how that maybe changed your career and and what direction you went with it?

Yeah. So Freddie Mercury was a crazy, so it starts way back at a diner. I don't tell this story much. Let's go. It started at a diner. I was with my my then girlfriend, now wife, and we would go to this diner on Wednesdays. She went to school in a place called Aurelia, which is like two hours away from us. And uh she was at home on Wednesdays, and before she went back to school, we would go to this diner. And then one day, this waitress, like someone was started yelling, like, Freddie, Freddie. And then and then I was like, What the fuck? Who's yelling? Freddie? Like, give me my fucking why are they looking? You know, like yeah, and then she came up and she's like, Oh my god, has anyone ever told you you look like Freddie Mercury? No, and that's the first line in the Freddie Mercury video. Um, and no, and I was like, No, that's like he's like my favorite singer of all time. So I was like, sweet, I love it. So then I started trying to grow a mustache forever. Um, and then like nine years later or whatever, that I don't know, Don't Stop Me Now came on the radio. And I was like, Oh, it'd be so funny if I like, I don't know, showed a home as Freddie Mercury. Yeah. Um, and then I did it. We got I got my clients a home, and he's a friend of mine, and I was like, Hey, can I just like walk through your house like as Freddie Mercury? And he's like, Yeah, sure. And then we did it. Um, and it was just like so dumb, like it was so stupid. And to the point where like I held on to it for like the videographer gave it back. It cost me $300, um, $150 for the video and $150 for the outfit. Because at the time you could not find those studded belts like anywhere.

Oh, wow.

I had to go to Hot Topic. Yeah, and it was like, yeah, those studded health filters. Dude, no, I was looking all over and it was like a premium on them. Like, I don't know what the hell was going on that weekend, but like there's like a My Chemical Romance concert in town, but they're like $105 for that shitty studded belt. So um I had to buy it anyways. And at this point, I did not like at this point when I was filming Freddie Mercury, I think the most money I'd ever made in real estate was $38,000 on the year. And then I filmed Freddie and I get it back, and I'm like, okay, this is so stupid. I honestly not sure if I should post this. And then one week, probably like three or four weeks later, I um was like, I don't have anything to post, I'm just gonna try it. And I remember sitting on my the my couch at my house and just like I like took a deep breath and I was like, here we go. Because I thought everyone was gonna just like light me up in the comments. I was scared, yeah. So then I like posted it and I closed Instagram for like two hours and I didn't I didn't want to look at it.

Good move.

And then yeah, and then I finally like reluctantly like opened it, and then there's a lot of comments. It went like pretty like viral for me at the time. And everyone was like liking it, and it was I was like, oh my god, they're actually loving it. That's crazy. No way. And then like it's I'm on this like dopamine high. This is the first time really this has happened to me at this level. Yeah, um, and I probably had like you know, 1200 followers or something, 1100 followers. And then the next day, um, it was posted to Instagram and Facebook. The next day, I open up Facebook and there's a comment from Ryan Sirhan, and it says, Love this. Nice, and I was like, Whoa, that's so cool. That's badass. That's bad. And then right at that moment, yeah, right at that moment, I was just like, if I can get the attention of arguably the most influential person in our industry, like there's nothing I can't do. And I was just like so on a high from that. So then I was like, okay, this works, this is my thing. Yeah, I don't know what you know, and I'm just gonna keep trying things now because I had this success, and and if I can just do this more and more and more, like I can start conversations and I can get in front of people. And then it was probably like you know, months of that, and I didn't see like real business. I started seeing followers go up, which was enough for me at the time because nothing was really, I was like honestly weeks away from getting out of the business before I really released that. And um so the follower count went up, and then probably I don't know, maybe eight months or ten months later, um, actually that $2.4 million deal that I was telling you about came from the Freddy video. Oh, wow. And all of a sudden, from this Freddie video, like I had so much momentum, and I went from doing $38,000 in a full year as my highest year in real estate, to I think it was June 2021. I did a hundred and my first hundred thousand dollar month.

Wow.

Where I closed it and then you know, and I was just like, you know, I thought I thought I was rich as fuck.

I was like, You were rich as fuck.

I bought you're like, I'll take 20 of those belts now. Let's go. Yeah, I bought all the things, I just kept buying. No, they're like, Oh, you gotta don't don't spend it all in one place. I spent it all in one place, yeah. So, but I was like kind of like so I was like buying I bought like custom suits and shit. Nice. I remember I went and bought three custom suits just because of barely wore suits, and um just like doing what the thing. I bought uh a car, but not like a nice car, a Subaru that I still drive.

Nice.

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you know, it's it's it's got it's two-toned. It's not one color, it's two-toned. It's got leather.

My wife and I are Subaru in Canada. You can't have a Porsche. This it's fucking there's there's so much snow right now. Like, I need to get to where I'm going, and the Subar is the only thing that's gonna get me there. Yeah, okay. Like, I had to drive last night at like 9 p.m. to appointments, and it was a actual polar vortex. And I was like, good thing I'm in this super that everyone makes fun of me that having, but I'm the only one on the room.

I mean if you had a Porsche, yeah.

Yeah, to your point, you'd be burning out. Losing, dude. Yeah, bunch of losers, right? You'd be doing donuts with your hair blowing in the snow breeze. What a geek.

I will say, I do want to get like a like an old vintage, like maybe like 70s or 80s Porsche. Nice at one point, just for like the the fucking four months of summer we do get here. Yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, everywhere else I need I need something with some some so it sounds like some traction.

It sounds like with Freddie Mercury, you found your lane because you're like, all right, I'm I'm like, I enjoy comedy. I can now use comedy to gain visibility and traction online. Did you see anybody online that was doing that? You kind of modeled it after, or were you just kind of like carving your own space and your own niche uh online on social media?

Yeah, so it was I actually was searching it, like I was searching real estate comedy, like trying to find anything. And it at this time in 2020, it was like the beginning. The first comedy video I did was August 2019. And from there, like it was hard to find. There was the broke agent who I'm really great friends with now, Eric Simon. He owns uh shout out to Eric with uh with Byron Lazine, and um so there was him, but he was memes, and there was actually agents, which was also memes, but there wasn't a ton of pe like actual people like talking and doing comedy. Yeah, like so I didn't have much to base it off of, and I was just like, whatever, I'm gonna just I guess go for it. Maybe this is maybe they're not doing it because it's a horrible idea, or maybe they're just scared to do it. So we'll find out. But like the trial and error and the risk of it is where the kind of magic is with all this. If you're not willing to take that risk of like looking just like falling flat on your face, like I could have very easily, um, you you won't get the reward you want. So, like, and people appreciate risk, they really appreciate risk. And on the come up, I will say for anyone who's trying to like, you know, build a meaningful brand and you know, something that's not just a following, but a brand. And we can get into that because I think that's uh a lot different. Um, you know, uh the the way up, I had so many people reaching out being like, You're that you're so dumb. You're like, stop doing this, you're ruining the industry, you're giving us a bad reputation, like all this bullshit.

Wow, and yeah, was that friends or was that just random people reaching out being like in cut it out, like industry randoms?

Yeah, really to to now, and now some of them reach back, go, like, hey man, I told you to keep going. Love what you're doing, man. I always I always believed in you, dude. Hey, wanna come on my podcast? I'm like, no, dude. Like, I'll see you later, asshole. Yeah. So yeah, so like, I don't know. You just have to like, if you believe in it, you have to keep going. And that sounds whatever like Disney and cliche, but like it really, it, it really is the truth. Yeah, that's my uh my uh I can't think of a Disney princess right now, but uh Snow White, yeah, yeah. Snow White. There we go. There you go. I was trying to think of Little Mermaid, but I can't remember her name. Yeah, Esmeral. I don't know.

What was her name?

Ariel?

Ariel. There you go.

Ariel, Ariel. That was my Ariel moment. Um but yeah. And then it has got to like a point where I figured out that, like, okay, following is good, followers are good, but like, what is this doing for my business? How am I gonna send this age? What am I exactly like what am I doing with it? For a long time, I didn't care about that. I was like on a high of like, oh, I'm getting a following and that's cool. And I think a lot of people get stuck there. I knew I didn't want to be stuck there, I knew I wanted to create something that was more meaningful. That's where I talk about like you know, follower count and brand. Very different things. Yeah.

You know, uh if you pose measure, like what's what what is that? Like, talk a little bit deeper about how you cut those two and how they're separate.

So I was thinking, so I started this. Um, so I I coach for for sell it, how you know you're saying at the beginning of this, and um a lot of my clients were saying, Oh, all you know, all the stuff you're telling us to do is easy for you because you have a big brand, and when when your face comes on the screen, a lot of your the people like they they know you and they want to listen to what you have to say, but for us it's not as easy. So I started like a month ago, I created like this um this new new TikTok account in like a in a full different industry and everything, and I've just been like posting, trying some stuff out, and it's like not it didn't go, it's not viral. It's got I got 6,000 followers and I have about 700,000 views on it, and like so pretty decent, but like I'm building like a real community of people who didn't know who I was, and more than that, it's like some of the people who are reaching out are like like famous comedians, like celebrity, like people like um so it's been interesting, but so from that I'm trying to see like okay, at a ground level again, if I had to build this all over, what what what works and what doesn't work? So I've always been someone who like if I'm gonna if someone's gonna tell me to do something, I wanna see their work. I want to see them doing it. I'm a lead by example type of guy. So I was like, okay, if you think this, I'm going to be right here with you and I'm gonna do it again. So, and then now to me, I think it's such a great asset for coaching because now I'm seeing firsthand what's working, what's not working, um, and understanding, you know, kind of the intricacies of it all. So to get back to, you know, what we were talking about, what I've what I really figured out there was like, and I I did a quote on this on my page, I wrote, um, people can follow you because of the product you present, or people can follow you because of the way you present the product. One creates a crowd, the other creates an audience. So, in other words, you can po if you there's a lot of people who have 500,000 followers, but they get no business from it because they've created so say you have an account that has 500,000 followers and you show all these amazing luxury homes, but you get no business from it. That means that people are following you because they like the luxury home. They don't like they don't care about you're the hub for the luxury homes. But if you know, that whole thing can change if you show up and present it in a way that's unique, that people latch on to. Yep. So that's what I found in this new page. And I was A-Bing stuff, like um, so this I love fashion and like it's funny because I'm I I like luxury things a lot. You would never know because like I look like I buy everything from a dumpster, but it's actually like luxury designer stuff. But it's um, so this is what the page is, and I would I would like I would show like some luxury thing, and people would be like, Oh, cool, yeah, like cool jacket, whatever. Or then I would do it uh show the same thing and do it like in my voice and be like have like comedic about it and you know, whatever. And then that would take off way more, and then people would start being like, Oh my god, like you're so refreshing because like these luxury items normally come with like a douchebag attached to it, but like you're like so cool and down to earth. Like, that's kind of like what I'm creating there. So you know that's what I've kind of learned. I think a fabio would like luxury brands. Yeah, there you go. But that's what you know, that's the my biggest takeaway from what I've been doing over there. And the brand, like your brand, the ver people get so caught up on virality of things and views and likes and all that. That stuff truly, and I know people hear this and say this all the time, it truly does not matter. Like you want to look at your your pages as a couple things, you want them to be kind of like a like a look book. So when you film a piece of content, uh you you want to look at that content and be like, is this a good representation of me? Is this what I want to be putting out into the world? And when people see this, are they are they getting me? Because the problem with posting only trendy things and shooting for virality is like, okay, so you get a video that gets 10 million views. Okay, of that 10 million views, you get 5,000 followers. Those followers are following you for the wrong reason because that's not you. Right. That's uh a trend that you latched on to. So as soon as you go into your normal content, they're like, oh, what's this? I don't want this. Unfollow. You know, so it's just like creating a brand over time and just like it doesn't have to be fast. It's like, you know, the guy, the, the, the 60-year-old guy who's all tatted up, and he's got like he's had tattoos for years and years and years, and he's getting one-by-one tattoos, and every tattoo tells a story. And you could talk to this guy for three hours about, oh yeah, I got this one in in fucking Texas, and I got this, you know, he's talking all these stories, or the guy who just like went to the parlor one day and asked for two sleeves and got them all in you know, 15 hours in, you know, or like 25 hours in two days. That guy has the same look and the same aesthetic, but he he doesn't have the depth in the story. And the the guy who's been doing this over the years is much more interesting for someone to latch onto and talk to. Yeah.