A Boots-On-The-Ground Interview with the Devastatingly Good-Looking Mason, Jimmy O'Neill | Episode 109

The is was I'm telling you right now, that's when I was that was it. Well, the first day I like sat on a wheelbarrow for eight hours. I'm like, this is not gonna happen, you know? So after uh I don't know, a week or so, I was like, yo, Eek, like you gotta let me do something here because I need to work. It's these days were too long. He put me behind a bush with a hawk and trail, and we were brick pointing the house. Like, I had no business doing this. How did I get here? But I pulled the mud off the hawk and I heard it. And like that's the that was the moment. Wow. Like that that is was, I'm telling you right now, that's when I was, that was it. It was over. Join us as we take you along our own business building journeys with additional wisdom from our network of local and national experts. Welcome to Bricks and Risk. This episode is brought to you by Property Management Redefined. PMR is not just managing properties, we're creating partnerships that build long-term success for property owners. John and his team can be reached at manage at gopmr.com or by phone 267-753-6005. Tim. Yes, Sean. Who's a good client for PMR? Property management redefined is looking for property owners who value three things accountability, reliability, and a results-driven approach. We want to maximize returns, but still provide client and tenant satisfaction. There's a lot of property managers out there. What does PMR do really well? Biggest thing is they're seamless and they're worry-free. So with that approach in mind, it allows the property owner to put their trust in PMR and know that the results will be there. The other thing I think a property owner is really going to value because they do it so well is that they have a local expert team, boots on the ground, managing your properties and your tenants' expectations every day so that you feel good about your investments. We have millions of listeners out there. Tens of millions. If they want more information, how do they find PMR? Right here, guys. Reach out to John Sachs and his team at Property Management Redefine. We'll take good care of you. I'm Tim Garrety. And I'm Sean Mooney. Today, Sean, we have another local boy, friend of both and ours, superstar entrepreneur. We have Jimmy O'Neill, the owner of O'Neill Masonry. How are you doing today, Jimmy? Doing well, gosh, thanks for having me. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming in. So a little background on Jimmy. So for over 20 years, O'Neal Masonry has focused on exceeding customer expectations by delivering professional quality masonry work on time and as promised. They've completed over 3,500 projects, have a 99% satisfaction rating, and have received multiple awards, including Best of Philly Stonemason in 2019. As a devastatingly good-looking Masonry contractor, Jimmy is determined to put out the highest quality work in volume. Under no circumstances will he quit. That is his superpower. Wait, was that the best of Philly? The most devastatingly handsome. I was the best looking guy in Philadelphia. Yeah. That's a hard one to do with masonry. Right. Other than that, he's just a retailer dude trying to keep the lights on. Hailing from the suburban streets of Glenside, Pennsylvania. Jimmy recently welcomed his son into the world in 2025, James Benito O'Neill. Congratulations. Thanks, fellas. All right. So put him to work. You're a self-proclaimed masonry nerd. Yes. How did that become one of your passions? Well, it all kind of happened by accident, which I think happens a lot. I was just cutting grass with a guy and didn't have a whole lot of direction. His I went to work for his friend. And I just enjoyed it. Um and then I I like got the fever, so to speak. And I got it bad, I think, and I just kind of went deep with it on my own time, really. And I learned a lot the hard way, um, which I do with most things. Uh and it's a good way to learn. Honestly, it's a great way to learn. I wouldn't recommend it, but uh it it's how I learn well. And um, I just it everything felt right to me, and I just really kind of went pretty deep with it. So I could expand on it, but it I won't bore you with it. Um it there's just so much to it, and very it's like a very intimate feel to me. You have an addictive personality. Correct. I sure do, yes. Anyone growing up with you would know that your your first addiction was animals. Yes, that is it, and I still have that fever. Would you say that for uh lack of a better term, your your masonry has become quasi-addiction? Oh, like honestly, you hit the nail on the head. Uh, I become very obsessed about unique things to me, but they're just things I enjoy. I mean about it. They just make sense to in my simple mind. And um, yes, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, actually. It was like my adult addiction. Well, yeah, I use that word loosely, but yeah, that's exactly right, Mooney. All right, so you're cutting grass. Yep. Where did it come into play that you're like learning about masonry itself, where you're like, all right, so like how does this work? Like, was it in your family? No. You just kind of like how'd you get into it? Like, how did how did it come up where you're like, this is interesting? So I can I can tell you the exact moment. I literally remember ex exactly where I was, everything. Um so I went to work with uh Joe Duffy, who is still a dear friend of mine and is an absolute blessing. Shout out to Joe Duffy. He's the ex Bud Duffy, he's the best, yeah, one of the best guys I've ever known. Shout out Bud Duffy. Still very tight with him. Yep. Um, I was making a lot of money with Duff, I'll be straight with you here. Like more than I should have been making. And his buddy of the time, Phil Di Maria, Ekey, was like a pretty well-known salesman for a big masonry company and had a falling out with his boss and went on his own and said to Duff, like, yo, can I take Jimmy? I didn't really know Eek at the time. You know, I just wanted to work with Duff. It was kind of like a party every day. I was 22, you know what I mean? It was awesome. I was hesitant to go with Eek, but I was gonna do the right thing to help Duff. And because he could get a guy to do the same exact thing that I did for a fraction of the cost. Yeah. So I went with Eek. Now, mind you, I was 22, 23, something like I think I was 23 years old. He had to turn me off at the end of the day, kind of stuff, where I just wanted to work. Well, the first day I like sat on a wheelbarrow for eight hours. I'm like, this is not gonna happen, you know? So after uh I don't know, a week or so, I was like, yo, Eek, like you gotta let me do something here because I need to work. These days were too long. He put me behind a bush with a hawk and trail, and we were brick pointing the house. Like I had no business doing this. But I pulled the mud off the hawk and I heard it. And like that's the that was the moment. Wow. Like that that is was, I'm telling you right now, that's when I was, that was it. It was like over. You just was like a hawk to a girl there. I was like a hawk to a probably wasn't even born yet. But um I knew I like literally it's as clear as it was yet like it was yesterday. Like I remember it. That's that was it. That's when I was hawked. Actually, uh now that you're talking about this, do you remember I came and worked for you? Everybody had to do it. You were doing masonry work? No, no. This was prior Dennis O'Donnell's phone still comes up and it says Dennis O'Donnell O'Neill Masonry on the show. Did Danny work for you too? Oh, yeah. Den work for me for a while. Yeah. I'll put anybody to work if they need a hand, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how funny. I love it. That's how Damien got into this. He he was gonna come work for like a week or two. He's worked for 11 years. Now he's got his own successful business. And really well. Shout out to Den O'Donnell, by the way. Uh what was Damien? Wasn't he up at the uh that school? He was like a teacher, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, so I got a good one for you. So we had an episode, Bricks and Risk. It was number 35. It was one of my buddies, well, one of our friends from college, Reed Stever. Um Reed's Reed lives in Glenside. He's from Andalusia. Shout out to the Andalusia Girls Club. And uh he went to college with me and he got into home inspection. So when I first got into real estate like 15 years ago, I ran into Reed, been working with him ever since he was on the show. But during that show, we were talking about Glenside, and Mooney was talking about the locally famous cockpit at the McCann house. I remember this. Yeah. Any good cockpit stories you want to share? No. No. That's the only answer I need. Nah, those if those walls could talk there. Um there's a couple stories I could tell about that place, but they're not featured. You can keep it PG. You can even keep it PG. You can tell this story PG. There is no PG part of any story that people could get locked up for this. Yeah. So I'm not even kidding. But um I love it. The cockpit, uh that's Jimmy Brett's place now. And you know, God bless him. He did a great job. Shout out to Jimmy Brett. Yeah, he really did a beautiful job with that home. And like it's an integral part of that neighborhood, so hats off to him for that. Um, I don't think he would allow uh what went what went down in that house back in the 90s. No. Oh my goodness gracious. I love it. So so going from cutting grass to where you are now, like what like the transformation going, you know, we're talking, you know, 20, 30 years, but where where are you now with like O'Neal Masonry and kind of what you're doing on a daily or weekly basis and then the people you're working with and and what you really enjoy with working. I think it's like an evolutionary thing. Like I'm I try not to be very rigid in my thought, where like this is what we do and this is all we do. Like, I will I like to be flexible because I feel like that's how you keep yourself and guys fresh and like open your mind. Yeah, like it's life, you get one spin here that I literally mean this, and like I'm down to try something. If I know that I can back it up and that I can do it well. If I can't, I'll tell you. But it's very rare that I say that. Um but to answer your question, like in the beginning, you know, I was doing beginner stuff, and people were giving me a shot, and like, God bless them. What is that? Sidewalks and little like brick walls and water fella, you could just patch this. Like, I would do you guys get it. When you go on your own, like I you tell me what you want done, and I'm gonna give you a price. Everyone has to start somewhere, that's where you start. And listen, it's it's good to start at the bottom. 100%. I was fortunate because I I was young, I was I didn't have literally didn't have anything to lose. And I think that was like a huge advantage that I didn't realize till I got older that I had six hundred and thirty-six dollars in my bank account. I'll never forget that either. When I started, and like that's nothing. Like you you you can lose that and you can start over, right? So but where it has evolved to was I just was doing X, Y, and Z small jobs, and I was like screwing every one of them up. Keep in mind here, I had no experience in masonry, I had no business even starting a business, frankly. And I could explain that all. That's a pretty cool story, but I'll get to that. Um so I was doing, you know, a little walkway here, little this, little that. And then I I ran into a guy at uh Allied Landscape. His name's Bobby L. Do you know Bob? Shout out to Allied Landscape. Yeah, and Bobby Yell, Glenn Sub. He's an awesome dude, still friendly with him. I didn't really know him at the time, but I knew of him through like Matt Duff and all that. He's one of those guys. So I said, yo, you're Bobby L, right? You know, and said, I'm Jimmy. And we were kind of chopping it up for like two minutes. And he's like, ah, we he worked for a guy named Joe Asenzi, uh Laurel Hill Gardens. Like Laurel Hill, yeah. Top class people? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Joe Sainz, Joe Asenzi changed my life, hands down. Like, uh, get to that. But so I said to Bob, I'm like, you know, we're just BSing. And he's like, Yeah, we got these Irish guys. I was gonna say these are all Italian guys that you're referencing. Yeah, yeah. So Bob, Bob was like Joe's guy. Yeah. Like he was Bob's a professional, yeah, right. So he says, We got these Irish guys doing our masonry, and it's you know, it's rough and this, that, and the other thing. I said, dude, you call me anytime. Like, and I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, I no business touching work that these guys get. I swear to God. Yeah, but at the time, right? Like I didn't know. Right? What's the worst they could say? No. Plus, I was like arrogant and dumb and real work. I had to do what I had to do to do. And probably you were probably like called thinking, you'll never call me. So, like, I was just BSing. Right. I was like, man, hopefully he calls, but like hopefully he doesn't, because I don't even know what the hell this guy knows more than I do. I swear to God. Yeah. So I I literally got a call that afternoon from a guy who I thought was Joe Losenzi. Like, that's how I had him in my phone. I I didn't even know who he was. He puts me on two jobs, like I'm talking the next week at uh in Flowertown. Um what's that big convent? St. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Stonework. I wow, and this is what I got good at was I I have access to the right guys. I I'm a big on there's different horses for different courses, right? So I had I knew these two old timers, still friendly with them too. They came in, I brought some labor in, and we killed this job. It was perfect. I drive by it every day. It still looks good. Nice. So then Joe started putting me on, like, hey, I got a job for you to look at. The third job I did for him was for the owner of Comcast, Brian Roberts. I go meet this. I was way out class. How long ago was this? It was a long time ago. It was probably 18 years ago. Something like that. Shit. 19 years ago. Why wouldn't they do that job? Like, why were they looking for you to do that job? Like, I don't understand why they would leave. Because good contractors stay in their lane. That's my opinion. Like, you don't see me doing drywall. Yeah. Right? So that's that's my arrogant opinion. But you do one thing and you do it as good as you can with your knees, your focus, and you just knock it out of the park every time. And for any time someone needs that specific thing, you're the only person I call. Like you don't call a doctor who works on legs, arms, feet, and mouth. And you know, you want a specialist kind of. So that's how that's why. Yeah. Um so Joe says, Oh, I need you to meet me here at this address, and I go and I'm meet, I meet this other guy, Phil Ianuzi, who's a legend. He's awesome. Wait, yeah. Phil is on Valley Green. He did my driveway. Ah, he's dude, he's awesome. Shout out to Phil Ianuzi. Like, he's dumb. Amazing. If you can even get him to your house, like you're lucky. I think it was because I live two blocks away, so I had special. He's awesome. He's he's been very good to me. Really good guy. And anywho, you know, I'm like nervous. This guy's walking around like he owns the joint because that's how he is. And like it was intimidating but comforting at the same time. Are you talking about the owner or Phil? No, I'm talking about Phil Iron. He was like, this is what we're gonna do, Bubba. I'm like, holy shit. Like this is and this turned into like a couple hundred thousand dollar job for me, where like I was doing like you know, three grand here, seven grand there, still good money. Yeah, but not this big league. Oh, dude, way out of my league. Like I had no business being there, but we got it done, and we got it done well, like real well. And Joe held my hand through a lot and gave me opportunities when I didn't deserve them, or I didn't have the uh background to really even be chosen for these opportunities. Yeah. So hats off to Joe Ascenzi. I will never forget that guy. And uh, I'm a lesson there that I do try to give that to some guys and understand that they're not gonna be perfect, but that they could be a great contractor if you're willing to deal with a little nonsense in on the front end. They they could be an asset to you and your clients. So that's a lesson that I learned from that. Let me all right, let me piggyback off of that. Sure. So you're getting started. This is like almost two decades ago. You get this, you get this big job. How did you Yeah, but hold on, let's put it in reference to like yeah. This is Brian Roberts, dude, CEO of one of the largest companies in the world. Like, hell yeah. Yeah. And this is the third job you're working on, or this got for Joe. Third for Joe. I might have been like, uh I it was under two years in business. I still had no business. So you're new. I'm just trying to frame like what that scenario is. It's the highest level of construction that I didn't even know existed at the time. Okay. Okay. That was good. Um, all right, so you get this big job. You obviously you're not you're not backing away from the opportunity. You're like, I want this, I want to knock it out, want to do well. How did you find the labor to get that done? Did you have enough at least other subcontractors you could call? Did you hire a bunch of guys? What'd you do? I had guys working for me at the time. Um fortunately, I I I'm comfortable saying this a few of them are dead. They were older, which like part of me needed because of the experience. You learned from that, but like being totally transparent with you, I wouldn't let these guys build me a doghouse today because of how they behaved. They were not the kind of people that I want to s associate with, and that's just the honesty of me. But um, they knew they were you know, they forgot more than I knew at that time. So they got the work done. I was the guy that funded the work and dealt with the nonsense, put the fires out, and made sure they were fed with mud all day. Yeah. So you just knew at that point you're like, I know enough people, or you had enough people. I had like six, eight guys working at the time. Yeah, I got busy quick. That's awesome. Like like bordering on supernova quick. So how so how'd you meet those guys? Were these just neighborhood guys? You already knew? Were they like individual contractors on their own or working for someone else, wanted to work with you? Yeah, like my thing was I knew I needed dudes that could I could rely on for masonry because I didn't know anything, dude. I swear to you, I literally had no clue. But I looked at so much work. I was looking at like 3,000 jobs a year, which is a ridiculous number by today's standards. Yeah, and I learned a lot by looking at a lot. Yeah. And but how I found these guys was I'd be like, hey, I want to get this guy here, and I knew what going rates were for pay, you know, obviously. And I just paid everybody more than everybody else had. So, like once they came, they almost couldn't leave unless it was bad. And that's I want guys to make money too, man. You you gotta people gotta make money. I think there's something really awesome about what you just said there, Jimmy, and that you know, sometimes when people get started, they try and they try and go bare bones. Like Mooney and I did the same thing. I had my brokerage for like 10 years. He still got his insurance company and and literally like just bare bones. But I feel like the lesson there, in my opinion, is that you had this big opportunity, and you weren't like, all right, let me go hire like average or below average people that I know I think I can pay to get this done. You're like, no, this is like a grand slam opportunity. So I need to pay some of the better guys that I know more than they would normally get to know that I'm not messing around. And as soon as we do this, guess what? We're moving on to the next one together. It's literally like what I did. And then I kind of moved on to like trying to buy cruise almost, where I'd be like, yo, why don't you four come with me? I talk to the boss, and I'd say, listen, I'll give you uh an undisclosed amount of money. Back then, maybe it would be like five grand. Wow. And this, I'd give you $5,000 in cash, and I'm gonna I'm gonna pay you this much and your guys this much, and you can get back to me in a couple of days, let me know what you think. And everybody was like, Yeah, because nobody wants to do the work that I do. And that's okay, because that's what I like doing. I don't I'm not good on a job. Yeah, my mind's too erratic. I need I need a list. These guys need the dietine, the aspartine. Yeah. Yeah. Hey everyone, this is Tim. Your favorite bricks and wrist cover. Co-hosts, but don't tell Sean. I hope you're enjoying this episode, and I'll get right back to it in a moment. Our audience grows through word of mouth, so if you would please take a moment of your time and give us a review on the platform you're on, that would be fantastic. Please also help spread the BR word by sharing your favorite episode with a friend. We greatly appreciate your time and trust. Now, back to the show. Shout out to WAMO DIDA. Yeah, it's good stuff right there. Can be erratic at times. Oh my God. So yeah, that's kind of how it all went down was I was like, listen, you gotta throw money at people. Yeah, but the other part of that is that my takeaway is not only were you hiring these guys because they did good work, but allowed you the opportunity to get educated. Like if you're watching the gut the better guys do the work, this was it, you're like, all right, I'll pay for them to do the work and and and show up and do that. But also, too, is like you're front and center. Oh, dude, with these guys doing this type of work, and now you're like edu, you know, getting that education and speeding yourself up. You're pulling all the years out of this guy by just annoying the crap out of him. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? And like, yeah, they weren't always right in hindsight. Yeah. And that was a very they were right enough for the time, yeah. Um, but like you guys, presumably, like I'm always trying to do it like a little bit better for just like because hell yeah. We're both we're both the same. I don't want to be like okay with it. It's one degree. I mean, you we'll talk it like the podcast. I probably bother him because I'm like, oh, why don't we do this? Nah, you gotta talk it out. You're doing the right thing. Why don't we we yeah, we could do if this could make it a little bit better if we do this like these, like these Johns. So, like, yeah, I mean, this is like I don't want to say this is my secret, but like instead of just brick pointing the wall and doing a nice job and rolling out, like, why can't we just do one little step that nobody else wants to do or doesn't think of that separates us, adds some like flair to it and still allows it to and potentially allow it to behave even better more productively than it would just traditional X, Y, and Z. Yeah. So it's cool, and then I can do that because it's my company, and if I decide if it doesn't work, then I take it on the chin. Yeah. I'm okay taking things on the chin. I just don't bother me. Dude, I also find that interesting because it's like I think a lot of people, let's call it yes, 10 people who what do you think masonry is are like, oh, you just do this and you do that. So to a lot of people, they probably think it's a pretty simple business, but obviously there's science behind it, and then also there's the art and the technique of actually laying it. So I think it's cool that like from what most people would probably call you know simple business, you do this and you do that, you're like, no, it's not simple at all. Because those tiny little differences are what separate really great work from really shit work. Yeah, or even good work. Yeah, good work. There you go. The nuance of like something as silly as, all right, I'm gonna make a mix and it's gonna have one gallon of water. Uh, not that we measure water, but for argument's sake here, a gallon of water versus 1.25 gallons of water, that's gonna change that mortar. I I uh I don't want to use the word drastically. Most people would say, dude, just put it in, it's gonna be fine. And they may not be wrong, but then to me, they're not doing it as great as it could be. Yeah. Because you're it's the smallest parts that create this fine masonry, if you will. Yep. That's that's just my opinion. I love it. Awesome. Um, so one tip that you gave listeners and watchers, this was in our questionnaire, was never plan on anything going the way you think it will or the way you want. That's a really good tip. Why that tip? Because that's the reality, man. Um, you know, we I've had the good fortune of working for some really good contractors in really cool houses, and they're old, a lot of them, even the new ones. None of us have x-ray vision. If I had x-ray vision, I wouldn't be sitting here with Mooney right now. Right, right. Neither. Good point. Yeah. I would take his number out of myself. You know what I mean? But um it it you learn that like uh you need to be flexible because it's um as a contractor, oftentimes a subcontractor for a general contractor, I'm I'm there to make them money and to represent them and to get some work done reliably and well. And you open something up, you don't you don't know what you're gonna open up. It could be you could just add it a month's worth of work for six trades. And being flexible like that, like I'm never gonna tell anybody, we'll be there on June 9th. You will never get a date out of me ever. It's just a form of lying in construction, if you ask me. Um so yeah, you just need to be flexible, and I think that's a problem in construction where guys are like, Well, we were gonna do this. It's like, dude, yeah, you should know that you don't know. Once you're confident, you need to anticipate that, you need to factor that in to the way that you're talking to clients and lining up jobs and and doing all of that. Now, to to piggyback that, like, I've been at it a while, and a lot of guys have, and you you have a good idea, so you're trying to minimize that gap, but like at the end of the day, uh, you take a section of a wall down, you don't know what's behind there. You just do not, and you don't know how bad it is or what's what the implications may be. So I just like to be flexible and try to get that through to guys that work with me that like it's cool, dude. Life will go on and it's just masonry work. We did an episode recently about uh your team and your network. And it sounds like the way you explain and you operate your business, that a lot of it is very crucial upon team members, networks, and vendors. It's the whole thing. Can you talk a little bit about that in terms of how that allows you to get on these jobs and work these jobs and the relationships that you have and how uh they kind of move your business? Yeah. Um, so for like the contractors that we work for, yeah. I don't want to come off here wrong, but like I'm picky about who we go to work for. There's nothing wrong with that. Um, I think you have to be. Uh, but not like not like in a jerk way. Like, I there's no need to be like And does that mean like people will reach out to you and you'll be like, no, no, no, I I don't want to I don't want to work. I won't say I don't want to work with somebody. Like, I don't because I just think that's rude. Like, I there's always it's not what you say. So you're you're just saying you're selective upon who you're working with. Yeah, and for like for a good reason, because there's a lot of good contractors that want things done that like I'm not great at. Yeah. Or I don't want to even be great at. Yep. Yep. So there's contractors like, hey, we want you to come and do a patio for us. Like, I don't really do patios much anymore. It's not something I chase for sure. Right. I'm not set up that way anymore. Guys are getting older and they are beat up. Yeah. So I just try to be specific about who we're working with and for because I know I have a pulse on the game, like you guys do in your world. And uh I know that this contractor does this kind of work and like I think will be a good fit for him. Um, because I know the kind of work that he does and gets into, and we will fit like vibe-wise, really. Yeah. A lot of it, I and I live by this and get to try to get this through to my guys, like 99% of this has nothing to do with masonry. Right. It just doesn't. Your masonry company. Uh yeah, you end up with masonry from us at the end of the day, and it's well done. Yeah. But it's the least important part of my job, I think. I'm not even joking. Can you go two steps further on? Like go go a little deeper on that. That's interesting. So I'll I'll explain it, but go ahead. Is it finding the jobs? Is it uh the talking uh and building the networks? Is it you know it's how you act. And it it's it's it's the guys who there are there representing me. Right. Am I glad that they are representing me? Am I like, yeah, this dude's good. Like he's good on in my book. So that and if they're not, they're not. Dude, that's such a that is such an important like nugget right there. So that matters more. I don't care how good you are anymore. No, like there's dudes who are awesome at masonry, but they suck at being a good person. Yep. And you will not find them anywhere near me. I believe this. That's amazing. Who's the guy with the cut off the Trav? He's the man. The red shirt with the tattoos and the beard king. Yeah. Shout out to Trav. Happy birthday, Trav. Wasn't it his birthday? He's he's like honestly like the best example. I've been waiting 20 years to meet a dude like Trav. Trav. Uh Trav had a pretty rough background and all this, and like he came out on Skatheed, and I I won't go deep with that. That's his info, but like hats off to him because that kid can stroke a wall like nobody I ever worked with. And he didn't really come up with like the best teachers, to be honest with you. Good dudes, but yeah, pretty like uh this is what we've always done kind of stuff, which is the kiss of death in a good business, if you ask me. Yep. Um and I don't I will not subscribe to any of that business. And is he a standout cause he can stroke a wall? Or is it his disposition and he shows up and he I'm gonna tell you, it has nothing to do with masonry. This is what I just it's I he's like the one who repeats it. Yeah. Because he's he listens, right? And and he was green enough where I could be like, dude, let me try, why don't you try this? You could mold him. I I'm not here to mold people, but yes, yeah, like I can set him down the right path. Yeah. Give to him. And and honestly, it was like a godsend, man, because I probably take this in my mind a little too far, right? I'm okay with that, and I'm okay admitting it. And I know dudes are like, God, God, this dude's a tool. Like, who cares about the mortar? You know, we gotta make money. Like, yeah, but I can do both. Yeah. Like they're not mutually. It's not one or the other. Yeah, dude, you can do both. You do it right, actually, the money will follow. I don't even think about money, dude. I'm not even kidding. Like, not that I have any laying around, but that's when I started making money, was when I stopped thinking about it. Anywho, so Traff. Bob Burk. Back to Traff, I would like beat it into his head that, like, yo, dude, this is not about masonry. And when I my the way I explain this is optics killed, right? Like your scaffold, we don't even build scaffold anymore. We have a company that builds it, they net everything. It is like, oh, these guys are not effing around here. And we're not. Now, you can eat off the floor where we work. And if you can't, it's a major problem for me. So that's a part of the optics to me. And that goes back to it's more than masonry. I say this and I don't want anybody to hear it wrong, but you can get away with less than perfect anything if your optics are the way they should be. Like, no customer's gonna go looking for X, Y, and Z when they look outside and they're like, oh my God, it was cleaner than when they got here. Plus, it's somebody's home. Yeah, it's a matter of respect. When we were uh when Zach Torres was uh renovating my house, awesome dude, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Shout out to Zach Torres. We had to have the home inspector come and he's like, All right, listen, I'm gonna have the guys there the day before the home inspector comes. And I was like, all right, like why? And he was explaining to me that like if your workplace is like spotless and everything is where it should be, that inspector is not gonna be looking as hard as when your crap's all over you got wires hanging in. Perception is reality. If it's perceived to be high quality, it's gonna be received as high quality. So to your point, it be like it's clean house, clean mind, right? Like totally. Yeah. He's dead on. That guy, I mean, he's awesome. Yeah. I've really I've lived in a house he did. Yeah. And he did a very nice job. I'm not like a fan of flip tests. Markle Street. Yeah, Markle Street. Oh, yeah. I remember that's what kind of reunited us. I didn't see you in years, and we started connecting again. Yeah, it's it was uh that was a very integral time in my life that I didn't know was gonna happen, and it actually is part of the reason I'm here right now. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like that's why I work went to work in the city. That's great. I love it. All right. One thing you also had that you put down is you said you like competition and you have a high standard for quality, as we're talking about. But specifically, what is it about competition that drives you in business? Well, maybe I answered that wrong. I I don't I don't do competition. Okay. Um, I think it's like I don't know. Not in a comparison sense. Yeah. But obviously, for you to do really high quality work, there has to be a competitive nature to you because you're like, I'm I'm kind of trying to like do it better than someone before me. You might be competing with yourself. I I've Mooney will tell you, like, I played sports, I did all the stuff we all did, right? But I never really cared. No, me is never like the win. Like the computer with my boys. I didn't play the win. I actually had that thought when we were playing Raiders. I mean, I was a killer back then, dude. Shout out to Adventon Raiders. Yeah, that was a long time ago. No, I I'm not a competitive person by nature, I don't think. Um, but back to what Mooney said earlier, like the obsessiveness. Yeah, that's it's probably I think you probably, if I had to guess, put that down more in that vein. It's obsessiveness. And like that was a function. Yeah. I wasn't always like that. I think that was also it was part of like the surgeries I was telling you about that I had when I was younger. And I get like the fever about something, and I can not shake it. And there's it's not deep enough for me. Like I just want to keep going deeper, you know what I mean? Yeah. And that's kind of it's just something, it's like a comfort thing for me in a weird way. So it's cool. All right, let's open the book here. Let's do uh I want to start a three-part series about O'Neal Masonry on Instagram. Okay, because I think that's a really good idea. I think that it's um for you specifically, it's been a tool that has maybe either elevated your business or taken your business in a direction that without it you might not have seen. So I guess chapter one, let's talk about getting started on the platform and and initially what you did with it and and just how you got started and maybe where it caught a lot of a little wind. So it's uh pretty simple. It's actually when I bought that house from Zach Torres. Okay. Um, I had not worked in the city at the time, and I was getting a lot of like heat from people, like, dude, we you know, we're looking for a contractor down here, like you gotta come down here. And I'm like, I don't work in the city. And then I got a phone call that we were nominated for the best affiliate. Oh, dude, it's awesome. And yeah, so this is this is what, like 2018, 2019? I think it was 19 we won. And I like had just had Instagram uh maybe a year, and like you know me, dude, I can barely turn a computer on. Right. Right? And I don't even care to learn how to turn it off. Very true. Where the hell is that on button again? I'm I'm just not a tech dude at all, right? Um, so I actually got a hold of a company. I don't even remember who they were. I I was always done pretty well on Facebook, and but like Facebook is not it anymore for me. I it's a great place for guys who are getting started. It is out these neighborhood pages, dude. They you can make a small fortune, dude. You can kill a yeah, you can make a ton of money. But like it's not the work I'm really you're not gonna find the stuff we're getting into. And it's good for like I've already done this, yeah, and I want to see other guys do well too. I'm not it's not the platform. I'm the dude, I'm the same as you. He loves Facebook. I'm an Instagram guy. To me, Facebook's just too noisy. Moon Mooney's a nerd, dude. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I've been saying this for over two years, but one day I'll buy an iPhone get on your guy's level. I doubt that. But um so Instagram, uh, I hired this company. I had like, you know, 600 photos or something. Oh, I remember talking to you on the phone about this. If I could get one photo from Facebook to Instagram that I couldn't, I didn't even have to know my password. I'm I'm literally not even kidding. Yeah. Um I still don't, but I hired this company and the dude charged me like 150 bucks. And I was like, oh my, this is gonna be a disaster. You know? And sure enough, it was uh a small disaster where I got all those photos on my Instagram, but they they were totally collaged out. You know what I mean? Good enough for me. Right. I just needed to get going. I needed some weight into my Instagram, so and I wasn't doing it. I just wasn't gonna do it. So then I just started posting the same way I do today. Like at red lights, uh, like I was saying earlier. I I don't put any thought or effort into these posts. I will promise you this. Um but your business is such a visual type of business, yes. So the platform for for you works well. It does, it works for a lot of guys well, and it's dangerous. And I'm gonna tell you a quick story because this will make a lot of sense. Um I won't mention any names, and it doesn't even matter. It's a guy who is a buddy of mine and he is uh a trash masonry contractor. Dude, like he's he's not good, but he's a good dude. Yep. All right. Um, really good guy. This dude kills it because he's really good at Instagram. Nice. There's a downside there. You know, people, oh, this guy's the man. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, he's the man. He's a he's a great dude to go get a sandwich with. Right. You don't let him mix a pan of mud at your house. You do not do this. Because then you're gonna have to call me for twice the price and come fix it. My point is this you can become a wealthy man by being good at Instagram if you're decent at your trade. Well, listen, because it's all a lot of this is lies. Really good advice. I make sure not, and I'll be straight with you here, I could take photos better than this and make it look nicer than it is, but then you're lying, and you got to back up a lie. I'm too dumb to do that. But isn't it so like, all right, this is masonry, but you could do the same with real estate. You could have a God that's real estate's the biggest lie in America. Real estate, right? Like look at these photos. No enemy number one for someone saying, I'm the best. Yeah, yeah. And you don't even know what the hell you're even doing a deal yet or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it's uh that's the scary part. Um, but listen, the cream always rises to the top. And like if you're gonna bark loud, you gotta be able to bite. So if you're gonna do I'm the man, I'm the man. Like when you get to somebody's house, you better be the man. You better show up. You gotta be able to back it up, or at least have the wallet to back it up. So, how transformational has it been as a tool for your business? Uh, I mean, huge. Um, and a lot of it has to do with the way I think the way Instagram is structured. Um, I like can barely put music on, right? Like it's a big deal for me. Unless it's country, and then you'll find a way to do it. Or old school 90s rap, yeah. Mooney. Um I was gonna start a channel as the hip hop mason because all your feed is thank you. Um it was integral to like I I'm at a I'm at a plateau here where I'm I'm comfortable. Yep, but I'm also like, don't hear this the wrong way. I'm like a whore. Like I want all the good stuff and I want to do it. I don't want anybody getting near it. Yep. Um, it's um it's unrealistic, but like I can try, right? So I'm at a plateau because there's not enough guys that are good enough to to do this work and still know how to act like a gentleman on a job. I don't care how good you are anymore, but you have to be good enough to do something nice and clean. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's a it's a it's a tough place to be, to be honest. All right. So I got a good one for you here. So one question we asked, what do you love most about what you do? You said the mortar and the people. Yeah. Let's start with the people. So you were talking about Trav and being a good guy, you know, top-notch soul, good at what he did, and you're trying to like show him how to do it a little bit better every day. What is it about the people in your business? Now, it might not even be the people that work for your company. No, not I mean me, I meant the people you work for. Yeah. What is it? What is it about that that you love? I mean, Mooney will tell you. I just like people. Like, I you know, I just I I I find a lot of it fascinating. Like, I yeah, in a weird way, this is probably gonna sound very odd, but like I'll be on a job with a guy who I've known for years, and I'm like, man, I wonder what this dude used to do when he He was like nine. Yeah. Like, did he go to Pembroke and swim with his boys like we did? You know what I mean? Was he like almost burning the woods down with his crew when he was 12? Was he drinking kegs on the railroad tracks? Yeah. I don't know. I just find people fascinating. Now I've liked most people. Yeah. Um if I don't like somebody, I I don't have any problems with them. I just will not deal with them. Yeah. But for the most part, I try to find the good in people because I think it is there and I enjoy bullshit with people, frankly. Yeah. So you so you're interested in people, and then when you meet good people, you obviously like having like good conversation. What is it about meeting kind of like, you know, the assholes, the bad people that you're just like, look, I like what like how do you feel like you would know that right away? Is it more gut intuition? Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, I guess every scenario is a little bit different. I give a I probably give people too many chances too. Like, yeah, a new broom sweeps well, right? Everybody's the the role model. You and I are very similar with our outlook on people. I'm very much so I'm very I'm very trusting until you give me a reason not to trust you. I mean, it's cost me a lot of money. I mean, beyond, yeah. But like they weed themselves out. I mean, it's you know, and I listen, I'm no angel. Sure, there's a million people who like me. But I like I will tell you, I sleep like a rock at night. I never I've never screwed anybody over for a dollar. And I I well, you've also lost money on jobs just to make it right. Bro, you have uh I I'm going through a scenario right now that I won't elaborate on, and I will put it this way I'm taking on the chin more money than two average Americans make a year. And I listen, no one will ever be able to say I'm a crumb. I'm doing and it it's a whole long story, and it could fingers and this it's not worth it, dude. It's not worth it. Like, I'm 46 years old, I can handle this as much as I don't want to, and I'm not going out like a chump. Yeah, but is that I'm not gonna argue unless it's there, there's a time and a place. This this scenario is unique, and it's uh there's levels of respect involved that unless you get it, you don't get it. And is that like you don't want so so you could go a lot of ways with that easily, dude. Most people are walking right talking over ADGs here. Okay, but is that because you hold uh your company's name, O'Neill Masonry, uh, in such esteem, and your reputation uh is worth 80 grand. Yes. And also like I'm so I've gotten soft as I gotten older, dude. Like I don't ever want see see this is what people don't understand. I work in a circle. Most people work in these circles, right? And the circle that I'm in is better than me. That's why I like it. They're smarter, they're they're better, they're just it's high-level stuff. And I don't ever want to be the topic of conversation that, like, yeah, you're not gonna see Jimmy around here anymore. If that means I gotta take, you know, your huge bag on the on the chin, then like I've been through worse, I promise you this. Life will go on. Um, it sucks, but I I will always do the right thing. Uh, it's just that's like Is that when you're not good at when you're not really good at a lot of things, like doing the right thing is easy. You know what I mean? True. Is that how you sleep like a rock at night? There's another thing that helps me sleep like a rock at night. Yeah, I mean, that's mainly it, yeah. I love it. Dude, we can get into that. That was chapter three of my Instagram. Awesome conversation, man. Such such good advice. Um, so before we shut this one down, why don't you tell our listeners and watchers where they can learn more about you and everything you got going on? Well, bricks and risk, obviously. Yeah. Instagram at O'Neal, it's just O'Neill Masonry, right? Yeah. Uh Facebook, it is the same. I have a website, but do you have a burner phone they can call you on? I don't have the burner anymore. Yeah. You got repo. Um, my phone number, email. I'm I will answer my phone and uh oh yeah. Yeah. They're harder to remember to get back to if I don't have the exact moment. But um I do take a lot of pride in like calling people back even when I know I'm not gonna be doing the work. I try to make sure that they know like I'm not a uh J-O about this. Like call this dude, I'll always set him up with someone. Yeah. And if you don't work out, you call me back. I'll help you find it. It doesn't help, doesn't hurt me to help somebody, but it's a nice way to kind of shimmy out of something you don't want to do. I do it, he does it. We all do it. Back to the different horses for different courses. You know what I mean? Yeah, love it. Awesome. Well, that's all we have for this one, folks. Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of Bricks and Risk. See you next week. Thank you for joining us on another episode of Bricks and Risk. Our goal is that you walk away with one or two valuable nuggets, and we greatly appreciate you sharing your time with us today. You can find all BR episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and anywhere else you get your podcast content. Until next time, keep learning and keep growing.